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Servo Eliminator on 2013 1000rr

13K views 97 replies 12 participants last post by  Spastik Monkey 
#1 · (Edited)
Servo Eliminator - Now PCV vs Bazazz Discussion

Hi all, I am still making payments on my 2013 CBR1000rr but expect to pick it up mid June, I am actively buying all the upgrades and accessories for it and want to buy an exhaust next.

I am confused about the need of a servo eliminator. I have read both that its required and that if you dont use the servo eliminator that you will get a FI warning light yet I have had people tell me they put a slip-on on and removed the servo and didnt need an eliminator.

Also, why on the topic, are there any slip ons that keep the exhaust servo? Its my understanding the servo is there for good reason, to provide more back pressure at lower RPM's to boost torque. Sounds good, so why do all the exhasuts and slip ons remove it?

Thanks!
 
#58 ·
i bought the servo eliminator installed it and still got the engine light which is what the part is supposed to prevent or am i wrong? i bought it to free up space and not have the light come on but once i installed it did anyway after 5 min of riding. i was thinking i just got a bad part or do they all do that
 
#4 ·
You can free up just a little space under the seat with a servo eliminator:




But you can leave it, just have to rotate it back to original position.
 
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#6 ·
Awesome thanks guys. When I get the bike I will see if I want to remove the entire motor or not.

Question, if back pressure is not wanted, why is the servo there to begin with? emissions or something?


I am thinking of getting the yoshimura full system (or the slip on, havent decided if the full system is worth it or not yet - yes i will be adding a power commander)
 
#10 ·
I think it's noise levels, I ordered the Akra slip on at first but didn't know that it came with valve like the stock exhaust so i sent it back and ordered the Full race.
 
#8 ·
Ah ok, that thing is gone then LOL. If it will save weight and give me more room to install shit like power commander under the seat I will get rid of the entire thing and install the eliminator from healtech recommended above.


Any thoughts on Full yoshi exhaust vs slip on if also installing a power commander? Is the yoshi headers much improved over stock or is it not worth the extra cost?

thanks
 
#14 ·
TC means traction control right? How does that work?

One thing about the CBR1000RR is it really seems to lag behind when it comes to electronics compared to all the other superbikes on the market. I have never felt like I wanted a bike with tons of rider aids but some stuff is at least interesting.
 
#16 ·
I think I may cancel the dynojet PCV and get the bazzaz ZFI instead, I am not too thrilled overall with the features of the PCV5 I have on my VFR800 and they dont ever update the software or firmware where it seems Bazazz is more proactive (plus they are similiar price). That combined with upper and lower injectors, I think I might go bazazz this time.
 
#23 ·
I have been googling to figure that out and yes you are right the ZAFM will log the data and you can then RETRIEVE it after the ride. That is waht the Bazazz guy says in this video: If true, AWESOME.

You cant do this with an autotune for PCV, you can only download the latest trims it came up with, you cant see how it got there.
 
#22 ·
I got in a heated discussion with dynojet a while back about the zfi tc. Dynojet said it wasn't true tc and that it was garbage and that is why they didn't make it. Meanwhile, their maps suck and i can't believe they care that much about my pocket book to not offer it and let me make my own decisions. Not all of us can get on a dyno to fix their shitty maps so its nice when zfi updates more frequently.


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#25 ·
I wont be going with TC, i dont track ride and I cant swing $900 on top of the bike, insurance ,exhaust, all the other upgrades, i just cant justify that price for TC w/o riding track or racing.

However, I didnt know zfi did more updates, I have read every post about this pcv vs bazazz debate in this entire forum I think LOL, been reading for hours. This is the first I have read zfi is updated more often. More data points :)

if the ZAFM does in fact log, that wipes out the need for the POD300, and the other reason to go with PCV is dyno availability, but likely I will tune my self using ZAFM and data it collects, doubt I will get ripped off locally on a dyno tune anyways.

Looking more and more likely like bazazz is the way to go. (costs a bit more for zfi and zafm though)
 
#31 ·
It appears the ZFI pulls crank position sensor which PCV does not and it also pulls speed which is optional on the PCV.

So the only difference (besides controlling all 8 injectors) is the crank position sensor (also neutral but i assume this isnt very important).

Any one any idea what info its using from the crank position sensor and hwy the PCV might not use it and what that degrades if anything from the PCV?
 
#33 ·
ah ok, PCV must just get the tach a different way as I know for sure the PCV gets tach as mine does and it wouldnt work at all without it :)

It seems the devices are very similiar as has been said in many threads.

However there is one thing I cant find out and cant test, what the deal is with data logging from the ZAFM. In the software in demo mode with it not connected to anything i cant test the ZAFM. there is a button to pull data and view data but I am thinking that the data is the same data that the PCV autotune gives you, the current trims.

Anyone with a ZAFM can confirm what exactly data it can pull?
 
#40 ·
Not to go way off topic but I am trying to decide between the Yoshimura R77 full or slip on. You guys think it's worth the $280 more (and the extra install work) to go with the full exhaust? in my searching I have read people saying honda designed a good header to begin with, but it seems people with biggest PCV/ZFI gains get it with a full exhaust.
 
#46 ·
Agree, and that's why i ordered the slip on at first....but it came with the valve...and the full on the Akra was only a couple of hundred more so i went with the full.
 
#52 ·
Back to your original topic and my two cents regarding the Z-AFM...

I got the Servo Buddy from SkutrNet/Woodcraft and it threw the FI light at engine speeds above 6k RPM. Incidentally, that happens to be the engine speed at which the OEM servo adjusts the flap on the stock exhaust. Fortunately, I live about 30 min from SkutrNet and they were very gracious to check out my Servo Buddy for me. They bench tested the original, found nothing wrong, and gave me a new unit to try out. The second unit did the exact same thing, so I ended up returning it and just leaving the OEM servo in with the cable disconnected. A little disappointing as the free space is nice, but I can deal with that more than the FI light.

Regarding the Z-AFM, I have used this without any consistent results. One section of the map will read lean and the suggested correction is to add more fuel to that area. Once I apply those changes, then another section of the map would read lean and once again the correction was to dump more fuel. I would expect that this iterative process would eventually yield even AFR readings across the entire map, but I never got to that point.

Contacting Bazzaz, I ended up working with Del and he suggested starting with the Bazzaz base map and running the Z-AFM a few more times. I did that, and while the suggested corrections each time weren't as radical as my first few sessions, the maps never stabilized. I sent him my maps and he said they looked ok, and requested the Z-AFM and O2 sensor for testing. He sent those two parts back, indicating they checked out on a Suzuki they had in house for testing.

At this point, I'm going to go with a dyno tune, but YMMV.
 
#53 ·
Thanks to one of the members for bringing this topic to our attention. I used to be real active on hear but kind of dropped off so I apologize. Most of this has been discussed before but here is a bit of a refresher.

In our testing there is no need to tune all 8 injectors unless you run out of control with the lower 4. There are some exceptions to this. The R6 with a kit ECU comes to mind as it will do most of the fueling with the uppers at 90% throttle and above. The new BMW S1000RR 2015 also. And there are models like the MV F3 that shuts the lowers OFF at a certain point. Show me a third party dyno graph where mappign the uppers as compared to the lowers made more power. The only person to every do this was Erion Racing back in the day. The used the SFM and said they gained 1.5hp but to do this they had to shut the lower injectors down (put -70 in the lower map) and push the rest to the uppers. You can't do this with the Bazzaz unit. They do not allow you to map the uppers and lowers independently but we do. Believe me, I would love to say that you will gain HP by mapping the uppers, we would sell more SFM units but that would be a lie. 95% of the customers out there don't need it.

Bazzaz is more of a racing pedigree? Interesting as we have been in the AMA paddock for 19 years and we started in racing. We have more guys in MotoAmerica using our stuff and winning also. We offer more features geared towards racing like launch control, pit lane limiter, rev Xtend etc. We offer more map resolution than anyone. With the new C3 software (most of you probably don't know about this yet) you can input any throttle value you want and up to 22 columns. Map each cylinder independently, map each gear independently. Who else does this?

I hear guys say our maps are crap. Each map is designed in house on that particular bike with stated modifications. We go to many rallies and all the races and maps bike across the county. The majority of the time if that bike has our map off the site that correlates to his setup we have to do very LITTLE adjustments. Obviously every bike is slightly different and state of tune comes into play but I will be happy to prove this over and over again. We also do quite a bit of open houses in Las Vegas and if anyone of you are from around here and want to come here I would be happy to map your bike for free for you to see for yourself.

I did not read all way thru this post so if I missed anything or if you have any questions feel free to email me. Dusty@dynojet.com
 
#54 ·
Dusty,

Don't take the comments as attacks on Dynojet or Powercommander line of products. I've used both. My preference is Bazzaz. Some like Ford, some like Chevy, both make good products. Both of yall have some features that will appeal to some and some will not use. That being said, I will be putting a PCV with a dual channel O2 sensor kit on his RC51. I do like that you guys offer a dual channel for twins. If I lived closer, I'd be very interested to watch yall map a few bikes. I'm not a master technician (in the powersports world anyway), but I'm always willing to learn
 
#57 ·
About a year ago. It is part of our new powercore suite for the new dyno electronics but it can be used as a stand alone software for PCIII and PCV. You can download it here, Dynojet Research Inc. Downloads
When you download Powercore you can choose which programs you want installed. Just pick C3. You can also download Data Center. This would allow you to log data while C3 is open and connected to a Power Commander and review it. It will show any channel that is available in the PowerCommander.
 
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