who knows a little somethin about titanium valves??? - Honda CBR1000 Forum : 1000RR.net
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post #1 of 22 Old 01-19-2010, 06:00 PM Thread Starter
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who knows a little somethin about titanium valves???

lets say that a valve was raw titanium with no coating how fast do you think would they wear out??? miles wise
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post #2 of 22 Old 01-19-2010, 06:05 PM
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Depends on the alloy, but Ti is known more for mechanical strength than surface properties. I know one thing for sure: Ti is FUN to grind!

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post #3 of 22 Old 01-19-2010, 06:32 PM Thread Starter
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Depends on the alloy, but Ti is known more for mechanical strength than surface properties. I know one thing for sure: Ti is FUN to grind!
the reason i ask is because i need to lightly lap my valves i know you can lap titanium lightly using a fine compound but just in case i break threw that coating im curious if they would wear right away if they would last a few thousand miles before needed to be replaced then thats fine with me
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post #4 of 22 Old 01-19-2010, 06:38 PM
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hey, I barely got my BS in Metallurgy, so I don't really know. I will see what I can dig up. I supppose "go easy" would be sage advice (as if you didn't already know). I doubt anyone at Honda is dolling out the details on the nitriding process as I'm sure it was a critical part of the weight/size reduction campaign.

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post #5 of 22 Old 01-19-2010, 06:53 PM
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Still looking. There is also a type of valve in production that is a homogeneous alloy, Titanium-aluminide. If the bike has this type of alloy in the valves, you can lap all day long. If (as I suspect) it is a titanium valve with a surface treatment, it might my more touchy.

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post #6 of 22 Old 01-19-2010, 06:57 PM Thread Starter
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Still looking. There is also a type of valve in production that is a homogeneous alloy, Titanium-aluminide. If the bike has this type of alloy in the valves, you can lap all day long. If (as I suspect) it is a titanium valve with a surface treatment, it might my more touchy.
i doubt its the tit alum.the repair manual specificly says dont lap the intake valves.but thanks anyway.my freind at orient express says he laps them in all the time using super fine compound
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post #7 of 22 Old 01-19-2010, 07:12 PM
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I ALWAYS do things the manual says "don't". Must be something really fun they don't want anyone else doing

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post #8 of 22 Old 01-19-2010, 10:58 PM
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I've heard a couple of engine builders say they keep a spare valve around for doing any lapping. This way they don't have to worry about upsetting the coating on the new one.

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post #9 of 22 Old 01-20-2010, 08:59 AM
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Here's your answer.....

I know a little about titanium alloys, having started a knife company - missionknives.com, we specialize in making titanium knives for the military. There are around 150 grades of titanium and titanium alloy. The most common are the CP's - commercially pure's and Alpha-Beta alloys such as Grade 5 6Al-4V (6% Aluminum, 4% Vanadium, 90% Titanium) which, if you were to compare its properties to Steel, is equivalent to 316 stainless. Anyway, titanium is a self-healing metal which means that it immediately forms titanium oxide on its surface to protect it from rusting. So basically, it forms a ceramic-type coating on its surface naturally. Not sure what they are coating the valves with, maybe Titanium Nitride? The purpose of this would be if the titanium would come into contact with other titanium such as in the valve guides. Anytime you rub titanium against titanium, you get galling, hence the purpose of the coating.

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post #10 of 22 Old 01-20-2010, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
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lets say that a valve was raw titanium with no coating how fast do you think would they wear out??? miles wise
To answer your question, pretty quick due to galling IF the valves came into contact with other titanium. Also, is there any aging that Honda has done to the valves (to harden them)? If you get them too hot while lapping them, you will destroy the hardness.

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Yeah Baby!!!
* Shiritaki clutchUps (boron titanium)
* Valjoux 7751 timing
* Shotokan 7075-T73 Flat Rounds
* Shimizkai Fronts (carbonium nitride)
* Hayoto Tripacks (trilithium phosphate)
* Takumi RearIrons (gamma titanium)
* Haruto Liners (copolyester elastomer)
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