Built race spec motor reliability for street use??? - Page 2 - Honda CBR1000 Forum : 1000RR.net
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post #11 of 37 Old 11-09-2012, 04:40 PM
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"HRC clone pistons."
What are "clone" pistons? Either it's a genuine HRC item, or it's not. This raises a red flag.

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post #12 of 37 Old 11-09-2012, 06:50 PM
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What are "clone" pistons? Either it's a genuine HRC item, or it's not. This raises a red flag.
Not too far-fetched actually.

Being a "clone piston" could mean a number of things. Another manufacturer could have machined a piston utilizing the HRC profiles, re-manufactured/updated profile based on HRC original, or in this case given the larger bore; a scaled HRC piston profile.

I have a few piston sets on the shelf from JE, Wiseco, and Ten Kate which might be considered clones. HRC pistons had serious problem with the skirts and really do benefit from some design tweaking. Pistons I'm utilizing were designed and machined to complement my head and PTV clearances with my cam profiles; not your everyday pistons.
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post #13 of 37 Old 11-09-2012, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by JetFireRR View Post
Not too far-fetched actually.

Being a "clone piston" could mean a number of things. Another manufacturer could have machined a piston utilizing the HRC profiles, re-manufactured/updated profile based on HRC original, or in this case given the larger bore; a scaled HRC piston profile.

I have a few piston sets on the shelf from JE, Wiseco, and Ten Kate which might be considered clones. HRC pistons had serious problem with the skirts and really do benefit from some design tweaking. Pistons I'm utilizing were designed and machined to complement my head and PTV clearances with my cam profiles; not your everyday pistons.

+ Juan on this.

Not a concern on a built motor at all. Just as long as they are properly done.

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post #14 of 37 Old 11-09-2012, 11:00 PM
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I say buy it and part it out and sell me those wheels for a killer price ;] hahaha 171whp on a race spec engine? doesnt sound to great of a deal to me lol thats horrible power for the parts he has in that engine. unless he is above sea level and the power output is different?

04 CBR 1000rr 199whp track/street bike
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post #15 of 37 Old 11-10-2012, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by JetFireRR View Post
Not too far-fetched actually.

Being a "clone piston" could mean a number of things. Another manufacturer could have machined a piston utilizing the HRC profiles, re-manufactured/updated profile based on HRC original, or in this case given the larger bore; a scaled HRC piston profile.

I have a few piston sets on the shelf from JE, Wiseco, and Ten Kate which might be considered clones. HRC pistons had serious problem with the skirts and really do benefit from some design tweaking. Pistons I'm utilizing were designed and machined to complement my head and PTV clearances with my cam profiles; not your everyday pistons.
Ah, gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up!

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post #16 of 37 Old 11-10-2012, 03:19 AM
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I say buy it and part it out and sell me those wheels for a killer price ;] hahaha 171whp on a race spec engine? doesnt sound to great of a deal to me lol thats horrible power for the parts he has in that engine. unless he is above sea level and the power output is different?
I am going to assume that given the Craigslist list being from Denver Colorado, that the dyno readings will be MUCH different than that of those at sea level. Denver sits at 5,200ft+ above sea level.

My rough guess is the bikes uncorrected output in Denver will be around 80% of that which would be recorded at sea level with comparable conditions. I don't know if the posted dyno figure has been adjusted already or not. Also remember that different dynos will read differently.

I also noticed that the listing doesn't say anything about running an HRC ECU or aftermarket ECU: JSB and SBK HRC cams make their power above stock redline...
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post #17 of 37 Old 11-10-2012, 03:30 AM Thread Starter
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Yeah, remember I said we are over 5,000' here. The builder said it was a powerful motor, he thought it had closer to 180 HP. I spoke with the seller and he said he'd allow me to have it dynoed, he was curious too as he doesn't have the original dyno sheet. I of course wouldn't do this unless a purchase was imminent.

It's hard in good conscience to want to buy this after talking it over with friends and hearing from you guys. Off hand, how much is a rebuild? Can you keep all the same components save for piston rings? 15,000 miles might get me 2 years of riding, maybe more and possibly less. I would love to have a motor that would last 50,000 miles, but if this was build well, which the builder gave me the feeling it was; then maybe it would still be worth picking up. Did I mention I love silver? ;-)

Could I rebuild it myself, or would that be retarded? I'm fairly mechanically inclined with a great attention to detail. I've built all my mountain/road bikes for years and have 3 in the garage right know.

Once I had to replace a water pump in a GMC Jimmy, in the parking lot of a McDonald's (that's where it rolled to from the interstate where it blew up). I had no experience, help from anyone or service manual. I was glad it turned out the be the pump cause I wasn't positive and didn't really have the money to toe it. I actually took a duffel bag full of tools on my CBR900RR to the auto store, bought a water pump, gasket, razor blades, premixed coolant and went to town. Guess where I had lunch ;-) I digress...

I know that there can be art to some things, and motor building may not be a talent I have. So, I'm certainly willing to use a service manual and do some work myself. Check out this thread I started over on Gixxers forums. I know some of you will be entertained. (My buddy constantly calls me a squid. )
http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=344006

Well, I guess I had a lot of questions and comments. Mom always said it's "good to talk about thinks". So this is prolly a little therapy to help pass on a burning desire.
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post #18 of 37 Old 11-10-2012, 03:39 AM Thread Starter
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JetFire, we were apparently writing our responses at the same time. ;-)

Yes it was built up out here in Denver. The 80% is around what I was thinking, maybe even just 85%. So if I never took it over stock redline would it last longer? I don't know if there is any ECU changes other than the PC. Would keeping the stock ECU be better for longevity? 14:1 with 1070cc would be plenty sweet and powerful I'd guess.
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post #19 of 37 Old 11-10-2012, 06:24 AM
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At this point, the ecu is gonna have nothing to do with the failure of your motor. Swapping out the ecu for a uk, or hrc model is gonna eliminate the restricted redline so that you can carry the power higher into the rpms(which would need the top end built, springs, cams,etc.) kind of the point to having a built motor anyway, to push it to its limits. So if your not expecting to repeatedly balls to the wall, if I may, why would you like a built motor?

Not calling you out or anything, it just has so much maintenance involved for an improvement your only happy with if you spend all the time, money and effort you have at the time. For instance, assuming the bore was done successfully and your pistons don't slap too much and what ever coating was done on the sleeves(nikasil?What Nikasil Looks Like When It Goes Bad) was done correctly, you'll still have he normal wear plus whatever wear and tear that's coming from you using the extra power. And like other dude said, you'll have to run racing fuel for that high of compression to avoid pinging, or unburnt fuel firing off randomly. I'm all for a motor being peaked out, and then getting to see the dyno results, but only if YOU have the money too dump repeatedly into it haha


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post #20 of 37 Old 11-10-2012, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by JetFireRR View Post
I am going to assume that given the Craigslist list being from Denver Colorado, that the dyno readings will be MUCH different than that of those at sea level. Denver sits at 5,200ft+ above sea level.

My rough guess is the bikes uncorrected output in Denver will be around 80% of that which would be recorded at sea level with comparable conditions. I don't know if the posted dyno figure has been adjusted already or not. Also remember that different dynos will read differently.

I also noticed that the listing doesn't say anything about running an HRC ECU or aftermarket ECU: JSB and SBK HRC cams make their power above stock redline...
Well im making 199whp on a stock ECU lol so im assuming the numbers are off because of sea level and it wasnt compensated for or changed on the dyno. around 180's would sound more correct. and you are right different dynos do read different as well depending on all the corrections the tuner has put in and type of dyne, etc but that is a whole different conversation. I like being at sea level so everything is straight up.
To answer your question if you should get it, by the way you are talking about what you want out of a bike, i say no. I definitely say NO to rebuilding it yourself. Just because you can change out a water pump or work on bicycles doesnt mean you can rebuild an engine. A lot of attention to detail, skill, and practice is needed to rebuild any engine. Especially if this thing has these nice parts, i wouldnt risk your first engine build on this motor.

04 CBR 1000rr 199whp track/street bike
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