AMSOIL filters, got one for nearly all your needs. - Page 3 : Honda CBR 1000RR Motorcycle Forums: 1000RR.net

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Old 04-27-2010, 08:41 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punkindave View Post
I'm not arguing but you're certainly getting defensive..

All Honda has to prove is that the owner's actions caused the failure..
Not defensive. Just trying to bring things to light.

I have been through this in my shops and in other situations including with Mitsubishi, Ford, Bombardier, Kohler, Briggs, Husqvarna, Stihl and others. I have seen a lot in my last 38 years in business.

OEM's all have one thing in common, stick it to the owner. The Japanese companies have the worst attitudes of all with a "We don't make mistakes" attitude. We all see what is happening with Toyota now.

Your key word above, Prove, is exactly correct But, they cannot just say "this is what did it, No Warranty". Too many people roll over and believe that. The Dealers and OEM's have people scared about voiding warranty.

Proving is a lot more than just the Dealer/OEM being "GOD" and saying so. It is really quite simple in what we are talking about. "Where is the used oil analysis and where is the uncontaminated filter?" From being in business, even before I was with AMSOIL, Oil Sample and bagged filter before it ever gets to a dealer.

Again, I have been on both sides where I have fought for the customer more often than not and there has been the occasional instance where the customer has been a "Butt Hole" and I sided with the OEM. You get a better response with Honey than you do with Vinegar.

The Best isn't cheap
Cheap isn't The Best


Bob
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Old 04-27-2010, 10:29 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amsoil Dealer Group;
Not defensive. Just trying to bring things to light.
Same here..

I DO understand your points, but as it always plays with AMSOil reps, you don't tell the whole story and are spouting the standard lines of "cult" propaganda while completely ignoring the possibility that there's a downside.

Sludgy oil IS a direct result of extended oil change intervals on MANY vehicles (especially in wet conditions) and WILL cause any regional rep to deny a warranty claim from ANY manufacturer. Please acknowledge this fact instead of spouting BS about manufacturers playing "God"..

I'm not talking about a dealer telling a customer that things will void a warranty, I'm talking about the manufacturer's owners manual that specifically states what is required for the care and feeding of their product. Unless I am mistaken, isn't it the manufacturer that designed the product and knows what is required to maintain it?? AMSOil says I can ignore this schedule?? The "law" says I can ignore the manufacturers recommendations???

Yes, it's a given that if the customer is a dick nobody will want to work with them to settle a claim.. Again, it's always good advise to be nice but that has nothing to do with the topic. Sludgy engine oil because the owner didn't change the oil when recommended will not cause a rep to smile and approve a $2000 rebuild because you are "nice".

AMSOil is a great product, I have run it hard and had used oil analyzed from most of my bikes. Great product, but it's insanely bad marketing when dealers go on forums and make blanket statements.. If you care about your product, let the specs sell the product and leave the bad advise in the sell book.. The longer a conversation like this continues, the worse AMSOil looks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amsoil Dealer Group View Post
Repsol just does not have the sales volume to warrant thousands of dollars in testing.. It just started gaining popularity.
And AMSOil not paying for an API cert isn't the same thing?? Don't bother, I know AMSOil has some good propaganda for this point..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amsoil Dealer Group View Post
The Law states that a Warranty cannot be voided for not following OEM Maintenance schedules... YOU, are the one that is argueing a mute point !
Really??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amsoil Dealer Group View Post
Not only that, A warranty cannot be voided for maintenance practices. If you disagree with that, take it up with the Federal Govt. as it is the law.
I would, but I'm still waiting for the law I need to challenge that says you don't have to follow manufacturers maintenance recommendations.. Oh and since it's Federal law, please don't post a AMSOil related link..

Enjoy...
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Old 04-27-2010, 10:33 PM   #23
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Thanks AMSoil and Dave!
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Old 04-28-2010, 12:57 PM   #24
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While the Magnuson-Moss Act does not require manufacturers to provide a written warranty, it provides specific rules when one is provided. Among those provisions, FTC regulations state: (c) No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumers using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if (1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and (2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. (15 U.S.C.2302(C))

Now, if you can read the "Legalese" it means that they cannot void your warranty without specific proof that the part(s) used caused the failure.

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Old 04-28-2010, 03:24 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amsoil Dealer Group View Post
While the Magnuson-Moss Act does not require manufacturers to provide a written warranty, it provides specific rules when one is provided. Among those provisions, FTC regulations state: (c) No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumers using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if (1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and (2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. (15 U.S.C.2302(C))

Now, if you can read the "Legalese" it means that they cannot void your warranty without specific proof that the part(s) used caused the failure.

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Bob
Is this the section you were referring to when you made the suggestion that doubling the OEM's suggested maintenance schedule can not affect your warranty?
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Old 04-28-2010, 03:25 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amsoil Dealer Group View Post
While the Magnuson-Moss Act does not require manufacturers to provide a written warranty, it provides specific rules when one is provided. Among those provisions, FTC regulations state: (c) No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumers using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if (1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and (2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. (15 U.S.C.2302(C))

Now, if you can read the "Legalese" it means that they cannot void your warranty without specific proof that the part(s) used caused the failure.
100% agreed.. It also states that if it is a requirment to maintain warranty, they must provide the branded items free of charge.. NOW-----

My question to you remains the same... If a owner follows the recommendation of AMSOil to DOUBLE the oil change intervals in the owners manual and the engine gets sludged up?? By your own interpretation of the law, the manufacturer can rightfully void your warranty claim for said damage as a direct result of the extended oil change intervals..
WHAT AM I SAYING THAT IS UNTRUE OR A MATTER FOR DEBATE???


If this is all you have, then I'd suggest you just agree that extended oil change intervals CAN legally void a warranty claim for a failed engine and move on..
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Old 04-28-2010, 10:12 PM   #27
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So explain to me how the engine is getting sludged up.

I'll help you for part of it.

Sludge occurs from oils where the additive packs are depleted.

Nitration of the oil can be caused by several things such as intake leaks and cracks in the intake as many are plastic today. Some engines, such as Toyota, Lexus and Honda have a sludge problem due to poor design. Toyota has had some problems since the late 90's.

Sludge can also be caused by trying to extend drain Intervals on oils that are not capable. I will try to attach a pic of my drain pan where the guys idea was "What's so special about AMSOIL ? If it can go 1 year on a change so can any oil." He definitely found out otherwise.

AGAIN: The OEM CANNOT void a warranty solely on the reason of maintenance practices. The Ester Base Stock in AMSOIL is a Superior cleaning agent which is why we will recommend engines with higher mileage, (automotive) use our engine flush before changing. Otherwise the Esters will be cleaning out sludge deposits and the Detergent/Dispersant additives will be used up shortening the life of the oil.

It seems that your reasoning is that if there is sludge, the oil is at fault. In the case of a petroleum or faux synthetic being used for extended drains, there may be a case.

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File Type: jpg Sludge Deposits 002.jpg (912.9 KB, 12 views)
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Old 04-29-2010, 08:20 AM   #28
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So where is the section you were referring to when you made the suggestion that doubling the OEM's suggested maintenance schedule can not affect your warranty?
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:51 PM   #29
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wow you guys are relentless. stop picking apart his posts and go run your t6 already. if you cant add something concise to the argument, don't bother typing.

if you read the whole thread he clears everything up.
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:15 PM   #30
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Thanks for reviving a three year old thread.
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