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Braking during a lean?

4K views 40 replies 21 participants last post by  Bosarge22 
#1 ·
Just curious to see what some of you do before a turn

do you slow down before and then hit the turn in a slow comfortable speed?

What if your already in the turn going too fast on a lean, do you tap on your rear brakes to slow down?

Sometimes I get in the moments that I feel like I'm going to crash in the lean turns bc I'm going too fast but don't really know how to slow down in the middle of the lean and when I loose up the throttle I swerve to the side and run out of road.
Sorry for the squid questions but I'm a squid and I'm just trying to learn so thank you in advance
 
#2 ·
This is one of those tricky subjects, where you have to be careful in how you interpret everyone's advice.

You're referring to "trailbraking" into a turn. Some people say never, others advocate it.

I trailbrake on occassion when I know I'm going in to hot in a corner. Hitting the front brakes while usually cause you to straighten up in a corner and straighten out your path if you're not used to it.

Trailbraking is a learned technique, but a good one to know. It could possibly save your life.
 
#4 ·
If i know im going in too hot I will break before entering and then trust my machine. These bikes rarely get used to their potential. I'll get my ass off of the seat and lean until my line is stable and has a good exit path.

If i am already in a lean when I realize im going too fast I will SLOWLY let off the throttle (be sure not to cut the throttle to 0) and lean more. Usually in my situations if I have to adjust mid turn its micro adjustments.

We all get surprised at some point. The deal is to stay calm and trust your bike, sitting up / Front breaking / panicking will only cause you to go down. Don't target fixate, and just trust your bike.

Others have much more experience than me and may have different methods, but that mentality has saved me a few times.
 
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#5 ·
If I feel like I've come in to a corner too hot, I'll try increase my body position inwards to maintain the line through the corner so as not to increase lean angle. A tire can only do so much (which is a lot in our case). If I need 100% of the traction, I feel that sparing any for braking is only going to upset the balance and reduce the amount of available tire for traction. As DJOrlando said, and I completely agree with, is trust in the machine and tires. Imprecise throttle adjustments will also upset the balance through the corner. If you haven't done so already, set up the suspension you have as best as possible (sag, rebound, and compression) to build faith in the bike. Before I did this, I always felt like I was fighting the bike and just along for the ride because the rear was so hard and the front was so weak (2005 model). The front is still weak but I've replaced the rear linkage and spring and have been able to overcome short comings in the front by adjusting the rear.
 
#7 ·
Your entry is more important than your exit.

As others have said, stay smooth on the controls. Small inputs. If you panic, and start chopping throttle and grabbing levers, you just made a bad situation worse.

Learning to properly judge corner entry is critical.
It takes practice.
Proper body position is also important. Hang off that bike if you need to. You can only lean it over so far.

I never go flying blindly through a corner I am not familiar with.
I will take it slow to learn the radius, and check for surface integrity and any possible debris.

As others have said, suspension setup gives confidence, and also fresh tires and proper tire pressures.
 
#8 ·
If you're talking about street riding, when I approach a turn I've decided what speed I want to enter the turn before I actually turn in. I use just enough throttle to keep slack out of the chain. When I hit the apex I start to roll on the throttle.

If you think you're entering a turn too fast, it's best just to roll off the throttle and apply more pressure to the bars so that you can make the turn. I wouldn't recommend a new rider to brake while turning though it is common practice for experienced riders.

If you go into a turn too fast thinking you're going to crash, if you hit the brakes hard you will crash.

It's almost always better to just steer through the turn and not give up by hitting the brakes. The bike is always more capable than a new rider.
 
#9 ·
Since there are a number of opinions going on about this, let's bring up a few points to steer this back on track.

For street riding, its optional, but given your finding yourself too hot in a corner suggests your doing more aggressive riding. Trail braking is a very important safety skill that may save your life. Before I say anything, strongly consider a track riding school to learn how to do this properly in a controlled environment. It takes a lot of practice. Better to mess up a few times in a safe track environment, than on the street.

Unless you are in WSBK/motogp, or on some wet grass, avoid using your rear brake until you've mastered the front (which will be never for most of us...). Pro riders use it to get the bike to rotate around an apex faster. i.e. watch Casey Stoner. But again, these are pro riders. It has very little braking power when you are in an emergency. Once you start to lean over, pressing the rear brake can easily lock up and you will be down fast (little weight on the rear tire). Your brain has a very hard time modulating two brakes and the rest of a motorcycle all at once.

Attached is a good graphic on how much brake you can apply at what point in the corner as you lean the bike over. As you can see the amount of brake applied is inversely proportional to the lean angle. Trail Braking: On the track to win, on the street to survive

In general, get your butt of the seat before entering the corner, keep your body in the samle place on the bike with your spine perpendicular to the bike. Use the brakes, lean angle, and throttle to get the corner right. Moving your body around after you've entered the corner upsets the chassis which requires more from the tires and decreases the available grip you have. Additionally, keeping the bike upright as much as you can gives you the most grip. Watch how far the motogp guys lean off the bike accelerating out of the corners to keep the bike as upright as possible.

Remember, in life there is no reset button. You can't go back. Some think track school is expensive, but what is your life worth? After that car hits you, you hit a guard rail, etc. How expensive is the $300-500 in the scheme of things. Rider skill is something you will always take with you regardless of what bike you have.
 

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#11 ·
great points, I look at it in 4 stages. 1. your tucked in 2. sit up 3. get half butt cheek on seat 4. begin braking, in that order.
 
#10 ·
your driving over your skill level there is no reason to be going that crazy without knowing how to ride that way , slow down and learn, take a few classes and ride to your ability .i know i am sounding like an old man but we dont need another kid dying ...
have fun and ride there nothing but time for you to learn dont rush it .
sorry its my father coming out of me ...........
 
#12 ·
I avoid braking in a turn at all cost, if your running out of road because you gone in to hot hang off more and force her around. You should not be riding 100% on the road anyway so allways save 10% for those emergencys.

Once I completely got it wrong corner tightened up an extra 50% and I had no choice but to stand her up and brake like mad and just manage to scrub off enough speed to make it around but was on the wrong side of the road. Lucky there was nothing coming the other way or I would have been a hood ornament!
 
#13 ·
several good points gentlemen!!!

the most important one is:

dont ride over your head (skill set)

another point to realize, most of the time you feel you are too hot in a corner you are actually just failing to look ahead. you get caught up watching the apex of the corner. targer fixation, a no no. use your peripheral vision for where you are. use your focal vision for where you want to go.

where is that point to focus ahead?
it is as far ahead as you can look and see but still judge where you are. when you are at the apex you should be looking at the exit point or further ahead up the road. this slows your perception of what is happening and allows you to just ride to the point up the road, where you want to be.

if your braking is complete and you are leaning in the turn, returning to any brake is very sketchy at this point.

another trick is be in the gear that has you at max torque. then your throttle becomes you fine tuning. as said above, use very fine, small adjustments. chopping the throttle, hello high side. whacking on the throttle, hello low side.

track days are great to improve skills quickly.

be safe good luck!!!!!!!
 
#14 ·
...

dont ride over your head (skill set)...
I cannot agree more with you...biggest mistake i see, when group riding, is people trying to keep up with their friends. If your friend is in front and pulling away...you'll catch up at the next red light /stop sign. Riding within your skills will be safer for you and the guy/gal behind ya
 
#17 ·
it is a difficult technique, Im sure there are plenty of riders who use this technique. Basically your brakes are used beyond the entrance to a turn and are gradually released up to the point of apex.Like I mentioned difficult, this is why all braking should be done early for an average and even above average rider. Look a few posts up and look at the pic
 
#18 ·
I never attempted "trail braking " , but As I gained ability i noticed i was doing it without thought coming into corner like t1 at summit point . I get on the brakes at marker and start releasing little by little as I get to and into the corner , I'm just slightly on brakes as i approach the Apex releasing and rolling on the throttle .

I think i picked it up going in hot to complete a pass on the brakes while entering the corner .
 
#39 ·
That's called target fixation. I do it too on occassion, when I know there's probably debris around a corner.

It's gonna eventually bite me in the ass if I keep doing it. lol

You're supposed to just stay loose on the bars and relax your upper torso as best you can, just in case something does affect your tire grip.
 
#22 ·
Just curious to see what some of you do before a turn

do you slow down before and then hit the turn in a slow comfortable speed?

What if your already in the turn going too fast on a lean, do you tap on your rear
Well, if it's a nice long sweeper, you obviously don't need to brake before entering the corner. Otherwise, brake before to preload the suspension. This way you don't upset the suspension mid corner, this upsetting stability.

And rear brake usage in a corner (on the street) is useless and not worth your time. However, if you are a track rider or racer, it can benefit you greatly to learn the technique.
 
#26 ·
Rear brake is good for keeping slack out of the chain, not so good for slowing the bike down unless you have 1000+ hours seat time.

The thing I hear constantly about braking (and always work on) is to slowly squeeze the front brake on, AND slowly release. Smooth is safe, smooth is fast.
 
#28 ·
A bad habit is to only use the front brake to slow down.

Lots of stopping force with the front wheel on these bikes, so some guys just use the front brake and never touch the rear brake.

It's best to get in the habit of using both brakes when stopping.
If you have an emergency situation where you need all the braking power your bike has,
it will be instinct to apply both brakes instead of just overloading the front.
 
#29 ·
I cannot stress enough how much you can learn at even 1 trackday. There are alot of different skill riders available to give you advice. And the instructors can watch you to see what your doing wrong. A lot of people are offering some great advice here, but if I could add my 2 cents it would be that there is a big difference between street and track. Body position and throttle control are huge but won't mean shit on gravel or potholes. So as far as hanging off the bike and settling your suspension to me all that makes sense on a track but if your pushing your bike to the point where you need to hang off while riding on the street I would say you better know the road like the back of your hand and the street sweeper better come by once a day. Those tips will help in perfect conditions. I would agree with whoever said ride at YOUR pace....not someone else's . All of this depends on how good of a rider you are. I guess in my head when you say your coming in too hot I picture what too hot is to me.....to me it means I know what my machine is capable of ........ iv hit my brake marker perfect and braked as hard as possible......turned in and knee is down looking at apex point and butthole is puckering because I know where my bikes breaking point is and I am extremely close to it. To you this might mean you have no idea what your bike is capable of .....no idea where your braking point is......and your looking right in front of your front tire with your butthole Puckering. The difference is I have absolutely nothing left to do but hold on......I have used my brakes to their fullest.....I have used my suspension to it's fullest.....I have used the road to its fullest and I have done everything I possibly can and my tires are maxed. Your scenario is much different.....you have a lot of room left but YOU don't know it.....in this case you might be able to hit your brakes....you might be able to lean a lot more than you think. Just be careful when riding on the street. And be careful when trying to apply advice from the track to the street
 
#35 ·
I remember taking the MSF course and them stating to never use your front brakes in a turn bc it will throw you off the bike at an angle and to only use the rear to slow down during the turn. Can someone clarify this, and when you all mention trail braking and it states to press the brakes and release slowing which brakes are they referring to? Front? Rear? Or both in the turn?
 
#36 ·
If you're on pavement and you're only going to use one brake, it should be the front brake. I usually use both brakes, but I'm an experienced rider.

If you do a track day they're going to tell you to only use the front brake for a couple of reasons. It makes it less complicated for a new rider, plus if you're really on the brakes hard coming into a turn, the back tire gets very light because the bike's weight shifts to the front wheel, so the rear brake is ineffective and easily locked up.

If you go off the track into the grass you should only use the rear brake to slow down
 
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