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SPOILER ALERT MotoGP - What's up with Honda?

5K views 48 replies 15 participants last post by  GreyBeard 
#1 ·
One or two races - maybe it's just an off day for the team. But Honda is getting decisively stomped by the Yamaha and Ducati riders this year and not even on the podium for Mugello. 13th on the starting grid for Marquez and crashed out trying to keep up with Iannone? So OK, you can say that the Ducatis still have fuel advantage and they look to be up a bit on power and hard to catch on the straights. JLo ran off and left the field on a bike in a level playing field and even aging Rossi is still schooling the Hondas.

There seems to be some trouble in the Honda camp with changes to the bikes that the riders are struggling with. Any thoughts?
 
#5 ·
Motomatters explained it pretty well.

End of season test, Jerez - Marc complained about power delivery
Sepang test - new parts, bike power delivery was better, both Dani and Marc confirmed.

However, Sepang has longer gearing, higher humidity and temp which resulted in engine with less power and the longer gearing softened the acceleration a bit.

Apparently: the parts didn't cause the change/improvement, the weather and gearing did.

Qatar, apparently Marc reckons he knew they'd screwed up.


That, and the fact that Yamaha and Ducati have both made big steps this year. Honda have gone sideways/backwards.


The Duc has way more power and can actually put it to the ground this year (Andrea was just powering by Marc and Marc couldn't even keep up in the slipstream). AND it now turns in on corner entry.

You only need to see how Marc was desperately trying to out-brake the Duc the last couple of races after getting destroyed on the straight, but trying so hard from so far back, that he just couldn't get the bike turned and kept running wide.

The Yamaha can now brake better and use the edge grip of the tyre better like in 2012. Its the best handling bike.
 
#6 ·
Luckily for Marquez, the RCV has all the power he could ever need. Let's just hope Repsol can translate the power and chassis into something smooth and usable for the rest of the season.
There are riders who have come back to take podium, that were in a worse position than Marquez is in now. No one will be Rossi, and Jorge is looking truly phenomenal,
but Marquez can easily go 2-time, back to back champ, with the right machine.
 
#8 ·
It's nice to see a competitive class, rather just one guy dominating all the time. If Marquez starts making a comeback, it would make the season even better.

To be honest, it would be cool to see the Suzuki's get on the podium this year too. Hey, I'm a racing fan. What can I say...
 
#10 ·
The spanish media is talking about marquez complaning about rear end grip. They have been testing quite a few swing arms but nothing seem to fix it so far.

Cal is riding a bike very close to the repsol ones and is experiencing similar issues. We all know that cal has a high crash rate, but still. This is going to be a real challenge for honda. Crashing is the worst possible result for them, and seems that when their riders push the bike to stay close to the yamaha/ducatis they just end up on the ground...
 
#11 ·
The spanish media is talking about marquez complaning about rear end grip. They have been testing quite a few swing arms but nothing seem to fix it so far.

Cal is riding a bike very close to the repsol ones and is experiencing similar issues. We all know that cal has a high crash rate, but still. This is going to be a real challenge for honda. Crashing is the worst possible result for them, and seems that when their riders push the bike to stay close to the yamaha/duclattes they just end up on the ground...
Pretty much.

Dani seems to be handling it the best at the moment and I guess i put that down to experience on the bike.
 
#15 ·
Its going to be a great season by the looks of things, you cant tell who is going to take it yet which makes it very exciting! The commentators said it best: there is gambling involved in racing and all of them went in Marques favour last season, this season not so much.

Love watching the races and having no clue how its gonna go down!
 
#17 ·
For Lorenzo and Marquez, when those guys have everything working on a track they like, they just pull away at the front and leave everyone else battling for second. How many times over the last few years has one or the other of those guys won by more than 7 or 8 seconds. No one else seems to have that kind of speed. But when they aren't as dialed in, it's fun to watch Rossi and the Ducati boys duke it out now. It was cook to see Iannoni and not just Dovi near the lead. I have to admit I'm a Rossi fan but I still find myself enjoying the success this year of the Ducati team and how the Suzuki team is improving every race.
 
#18 ·
I think it's funny that when up and comers are excelling they get praised but then when they start having some problems get criticized and shunned like lepers. Marquez is 22 years old. He's an excellent rider but of course has a lot to learn about racing and developing a bike and much more experience to gain. I for one am actually glad he's having these problems. Not because I'm a Marquez/Repsol Honda hater or want other people to win, but because learning how to overcome these challenges, maintain mental strength and stay dedicated are attributes anyone can benefit from.

Pedrosa haters are funny too. Many see him as a "bridesmaid", or wasting a factory machine and not winning a championship, but those that think that don't take into consideration his entire GP career. Dani is second only to Rossi in career podiums. Most of those podiums have helped Honda secure Manufacturer Championships, something Nakamoto is VERY keen on winning every year for Honda. Apparently, Pedrosa is great at providing rider feedback and helping develop the bike.
 
#19 ·
Pedrosa haters are funny too. Many see him as a "bridesmaid", or wasting a factory machine and not winning a championship, but those that think that don't take into consideration his entire GP career. Dani is second only to Rossi in career podiums. Most of those podiums have helped Honda secure Manufacturer Championships, something Nakamoto is VERY keen on winning every year for Honda. Apparently, Pedrosa is great at providing rider feedback and helping develop the bike.
????????

Ummmm, Pedrosa is a bridesmaid. While he has 3 crowns in lower level, he has ZERO with the big boys. I won't even mention (well, maybe I will) 3 riders have won on the bike that was built just for him - Hayden, Stoner and Marquez.

And I'm pretty sure Lorenzo has more podiums. Maybe even Marquez. And plenty of others. I'm at work so I can't do the research right away, but I'll check later tonight.

I will say you're right about helping Honda win team championships. He has been there to help Honda shine through the years. Just like a bridesmaid helps the bride look good :)
 
#21 ·
I totally agree with tracksol. It is hard to look at things with perspective due to Dani's lack of motoGP titles. That being said, Vinales was recently interviewed and asked who (in his opinion) was the best motoGP rider. He answered "Dani, without a doubt".
The interviewer, a bit perplexed asked him to elaborate a bit more. In sum he said something like this "have you ever seen dani in person?. He is tiny. People don't realize the amount of stregth that it takes to do 26 laps on a motoGP at race pace. Dani was forced to compensate for his lack of physical strength by developing the most refined, consistent, and efficient riding style. He had no other way. To me those are the qualities that make the most talented motorcycle rider. He may not be the fastest, but he is the most talented".

Well, thats just Vinales opinion, others will argue that being fast is the only thing that matters, or winning titles...etc. Depends who you ask. One thing is certain, Dani is a 125 and 250cc champion and has more wins and podiums than 80% of MotoGP championship winners.

A few facts:

Hayden: Starts Wins Podiums Poles F. laps
204 3 28 5 7


Criville:

Starts Wins Podiums Poles F. laps Points
193 20 66 12 20 2012


Stoner:

Starts Wins Podiums Poles F. laps Points
115 38 69 39 29 1815

If you look at these numbers you can clearly see what Dani is a Hall of famer and one of the best riders that has ever competed in MotoGP. He will lack the crown that would ultimately validate his career as a top 5 of all times, but suggesting that Dani is not a top notch rider is just stupid.
 
#28 ·
HEAP of bad luck. You sound like you believe luck is an actual thing. I guess Ducati has been having bad luck for years because of bad luck? Not because they were arrogant and thought the bike was fine and riders just needed to adjust their riding style?

The truth is that life is what it is, and you take the good with the bad. Dani may have a few things that didn't go his way, but his career has been consistently positive, with a HEAP more good luck than bad. Lol.
 
#29 ·
HEAP of bad luck. You sound like you believe luck is an actual thing. I guess duclatte has been having bad luck for years because of bad luck? Not because they were arrogant and thought the bike was fine and riders just needed to adjust their riding style?

The truth is that life is what it is, and you take the good with the bad. Dani may have a few things that didn't go his way, but his career has been consistently positive, with a HEAP more good luck than bad. Lol.
Dani has had more bad luck that most in MotoGP.

He's been injured by stuck throttles, he's been forced to start from the rear after qualifying pole due to problems on the grid with the bike, he's been taken out and injured by other riders on multiple occasions when he was looking good for the championship.

Compare with Marquez, who does things like bail from the bike at 339 km/h and get off with a bruised chin...
 
#30 ·
I guess accumulating enough points all year to be in the position to win the championship was all luck for Hayden. :jerkoff:
Injury killed his career too.
Racing is full of luck, good and bad. Everyone experiences it.
DP just isn't consistent enough or maybe isn't physically tough enough to last a whole season. That's racing. :shrug:
 
#31 ·
I guess accumulating enough points all year to be in the position to win the championship was all luck for Hayden. :jerkoff:
Injury killed his career too.
Not saying it was all luck, but he had several years on the RC211V and was expected to win on it. Rossi also had a lot of problems with the 2006 M1, including 3 retirements.

Dani's results on the factory Honda are far better on average than Nicky's yet people are saying Dani is a waste of space on the bike?

He was better than every other Honda last time out, and he's still not fully recovered.
 
#32 ·
IDK...motogp riders probably account for like 0.0005 of the world's population, which means they're a select few and all extremely talented.

But, just like in any other pro sport, there are some guys that really stand out. It doesn't mean the other guys suck. Just that those stand out guys are that much more gifted.
 
#35 ·
Amount of points is irrelevant, having the most is what counts.
Hate on Hayden all you want, he has a championship and Pedrosa doesn't. :sad010:

Since stats are important try these........

MotoGP
Pedrosa...... 154 starts...... 26 wins
Marquez....... 42 starts...... 20 wins

Career
Pedrosa...... 232 starts......... 49 wins
Marquez......120 starts......... 46 wins
 
#36 ·
I don't hate on Hayden. I think he's a great rider. Clearly all you care about is championships and race wins. You're entitled to that.

All I'm saying is that there's gotta be some reason, or multiple reasons, why Repsol Honda have stayed with Pedrosa.

Do you have the stats for starts & wins for Hayden? :shoot:
 
#41 ·
Well, with the MotoGP season half over, I think we can now answer the question as to why their MotoGP technology isn't trickling down to the street bikes. Their engineers are overwhelmed figuring out why they're getting their tails kicked by the Yamahas. They should have left the bike alone that Marquez was using to win an insane number of races and focused all that down time on brining that tech to the street to make a competitive liter bike again.
 
#46 ·
Of course they are going to continue development, but after a season like 2014, you would think that the changes would be small steps and tweaks. They must have made a critical design mistake to go from winning the first 10 races in a row to what could only be called a disaster this season. Marquez had a far better year in 2013 as a rookie!
 
#44 ·
Spoiler Alert!



I guess you missed the last result from the British MotoGP? No Hondas anywhere near the podium. Even Marquez is saying it's over now though I still think an epic battle between JLo and Rossi is about to unfold with the Ducatis playing a supporting role. MM may win a few more races but it won't affect the championship outcome unless come catastrophe befalls the Yamaha factory team. It'll be a lot of fun if Jlo and Rossi take it down to the wire and I'm looking forward to the rest of the season.

So I guess the theory among the Honda faithful is that the factory screwed up the '15 bike so badly that the kid can't win on it? I wonder if there isn't an equal measure of the kid's mortality and fame influencing him as well. If you've been watching MotoGP for awhile, JLo came out fearless in the premier class as well - until he started crashing. It took a few years for him to sort it out and start winning championships.
 
#45 ·
Only Marquez switched to the 2014 chassis. Pedrosa stayed with the new chassis and his performance hasn't changed much and he is even showing hints of better performance after his surgery. Unfortunately, the satellite riders are still having trouble figuring out the RC213V. I'm sure there is a lot we don't know but it's apparent Honda is in full damage control mode at the moment. Scott Redding is switching to Ducati next year and has voiced his feeling of having made the wrong choice at going with Honda when he did. Surprisingly Crutchlow signed on again with LCR/CWM Honda for another 2 years even though he's also shown displeasure with the RC213V earlier this year.

One thing to note is that apparently Honda has a habit of not leaving well enough alone and some say "over-engineer" the bike. Mick Doohan is on record of telling the factory to leave the bike alone and just let him ride the thing.
 
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