RC45's SP2 Track Bike Build - Page 25 - Honda CBR1000 Forum : 1000RR.net
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post #241 of 589 Old 06-10-2018, 05:41 PM
954rr rider
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OMG, i was really hoping i was missing something, unfortunately i wasn't. what an embarrassment for Honda. if this was a stock standard 2017 1krr ok, but this is the sp2 for fuck sakes, its suppose to be there race bike with headlights, "for racers only" so they said. and they are handing out a bike with only 149hp. all the other manufacturers are at least in the 170's with there standard machines, no wonder there getting there ass handed to them. its so sad to see one of the greatest manufacturers, the one i have grown up on, getting it shoved up there ass from everyone else, and the worst part is they seem to not care, almost smiling and saying hey, we like it in the butt.

my hopes and dreams of them pulling it together and offering us what we all want (v5 power) is dwindling farther and farther away every day, so much that i just might have to go visit the other side, and buy a ducati!
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post #242 of 589 Old 06-10-2018, 07:41 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 954rr rider View Post
OMG, i was really hoping i was missing something, unfortunately i wasn't. what an embarrassment for Honda. if this was a stock standard 2017 1krr ok, but this is the sp2 for fuck sakes, its suppose to be there race bike with headlights, "for racers only" so they said. and they are handing out a bike with only 149hp. all the other manufacturers are at least in the 170's with there standard machines, no wonder there getting there ass handed to them. its so sad to see one of the greatest manufacturers, the one i have grown up on, getting it shoved up there ass from everyone else, and the worst part is they seem to not care, almost smiling and saying hey, we like it in the butt.

my hopes and dreams of them pulling it together and offering us what we all want (v5 power) is dwindling farther and farther away every day, so much that i just might have to go visit the other side, and buy a ducati!
Actually I believe you did miss the point made in the post.

Just wondering what wheel horsepower number where you expecting from an engine openly rated by Honda at 189bhp at the crank?

You missed the point of the US spec bike being software nerfed versus the Euro bikes, and that by simply applying the Euro tune to the US bike the measured power increased by 11% and the power curve went from being capped and limited to a smooth run all the way to red line.

Nothing was changed internally - the only change was ignition, fuel and ETV maps.

Stock US replaced by stock Euro, no tuning at all.



The Good RS250R NF5 The Bad TZ250 2KM The Ugly LS7 C5Z07 Gone but not forgotten RC45 Delivered US SP2 #65

SP2 Delivery Thread < - Delivery Thread

RC45's SP2 Trackday Bike Build Thread <- Build Thread

RC45's US vs UK ETV Tables Dyno <- Dyno Page

PAIR Mod HRC Style <- HRC PAIR Page

Myths & Mysteries of the SP2 ECU Thread <- ECU Thread

Last edited by RC45; 06-10-2018 at 10:25 PM.
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post #243 of 589 Old 06-10-2018, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 954rr rider View Post
OMG, i was really hoping i was missing something, unfortunately i wasn't. what an embarrassment for Honda. if this was a stock standard 2017 1krr ok, but this is the sp2 for fuck sakes, its suppose to be there race bike with headlights, "for racers only" so they said. and they are handing out a bike with only 149hp. all the other manufacturers are at least in the 170's with there standard machines, no wonder there getting there ass handed to them. its so sad to see one of the greatest manufacturers, the one i have grown up on, getting it shoved up there ass from everyone else, and the worst part is they seem to not care, almost smiling and saying hey, we like it in the butt.

my hopes and dreams of them pulling it together and offering us what we all want (v5 power) is dwindling farther and farther away every day, so much that i just might have to go visit the other side, and buy a ducati!
I understand what you are saying to a certain extent. Did Honda put a big dollar sign on a bike that is their flagship model and produced a bike down on HP, very much so. Have they done this the last decade or longer, yes. So in my opinion, no surprise here. Iíve owned just about every version Honda has produced since the 1998 CBR. Which is the only one I owned that never saw the track. If you have bought a Honda in the last 10 years, you purchased because you are brand loyal, liked the looks, Honda stability or Honda reliability. If you wanted a big number on a piece of paper or wanted to be the fastest guy in a straight line, you buy a Kawi or BMW.

I can tell you the difference between my 2012, 2017 SP1 and this 2017 SP2 is huge. My custom tune with air filter and full exhaust on a load cell Dyno was only 155hp. Put that same bike the same day on a Dynojet Dyno, itís 172hp-175hp. A 2016 Kawi on the same Dyno mine was run on produced 171. Iím not surprised nor phased by this. Power curve, where it is delivered in the power band and how the bike delivers that power to the pavement is so much more important to me. This bikes midrange has other bikes having to play catch up.

The point is this, at my level of racing, which is nothing near WSBK or MotoA, the bikes HP isnít the factor. Iíve destroyed BMWís, Yamaha R1ís, Kawasakiís etc at the track and on the streets through the twisties. The other guys riding these bikes are also racers and very capable riders and some with better skill than myself. If I was beat at a track, itís because of riding skill differences not because I was down 15-20hp. Iíve been beat by a lot of people that have had significantly older bikes with less HP. Rider makes a big difference in the equation.

At the higher levels, yes, you are screwed. But for the majority of us mere mortals, the bike is a great bike and more than enough to be a formidable track weapon. Subtle changes made a huge difference in this bike. Honda has always been known to be on the arrogant side. They have Marquez, I truly donít think they are losing one ounce of sleep about what the sell to us. Lol. Plus, we have made calls to American Honda. They donít care. Yes, ití would have been nice to have a bike that performs like this one does but has top end on par with the bmw and Kawi. But it doesnít, and I have flogged the shit out of this bike and itís awesome! You really wouldnít be disappointed in having this bike or even the base model for that matter. Regardless of the HP.

Just my opinion.

X

1998 CBR 900RR (Pearl Yellow)- Totaled
2001 CBR 929RR (Blk/Yellow)- Sold
2004 CBR 1000RR (Black)-STOLEN!
2005 CBR 1000RR/ Titanium/Black- Sold
2007 GSXR 600- Sold
2007 GSXR 600- 2nd one Sold
2006 CBR 1000RR- Sold
2007 CBR 1000RR- Sold
2012 CBR 1000RR- Sold
2017 CBR 1000RR SP1- Sold
2017 CBR 1000RR SP1- Sold
2017 CBR 1000RR SP2- #35 Current project
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post #244 of 589 Old 06-10-2018, 11:48 PM
954rr rider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC45 View Post
Actually I believe you did miss the point made in the post.

Just wondering what wheel horsepower number where you expecting from an engine openly rated by Honda at 189bhp at the crank?

You missed the point of the US spec bike being software nerfed versus the Euro bikes, and that by simply applying the Euro tune to the US bike the measured power increased by 11% and the power curve went from being capped and limited to a smooth run all the way to red line.

Nothing was changed internally - the only change was ignition, fuel and ETV maps.

Stock US replaced by stock Euro, no tuning at all.
I didn't miss the point of the post, i get what you are sharing. you are simply showing how much the US version sucks because Honda has de-tuned it. My point is, this is there flag ship bike, the one that is suppose to be all the talk, you shouldn't have to do anything to it. the build you are doing is how the bike should have shown up at the dealer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XOptio1 View Post
I understand what you are saying to a certain extent. Did Honda put a big dollar sign on a bike that is their flagship model and produced a bike down on HP, very much so. Have they done this the last decade or longer, yes. So in my opinion, no surprise here. Iíve owned just about every version Honda has produced since the 1998 CBR. Which is the only one I owned that never saw the track. If you have bought a Honda in the last 10 years, you purchased because you are brand loyal, liked the looks, Honda stability or Honda reliability. If you wanted a big number on a piece of paper or wanted to be the fastest guy in a straight line, you buy a Kawi or BMW.

I can tell you the difference between my 2012, 2017 SP1 and this 2017 SP2 is huge. My custom tune with air filter and full exhaust on a load cell Dyno was only 155hp. Put that same bike the same day on a Dynojet Dyno, itís 172hp-175hp. A 2016 Kawi on the same Dyno mine was run on produced 171. Iím not surprised nor phased by this. Power curve, where it is delivered in the power band and how the bike delivers that power to the pavement is so much more important to me. This bikes midrange has other bikes having to play catch up.

The point is this, at my level of racing, which is nothing near WSBK or MotoA, the bikes HP isnít the factor. Iíve destroyed BMWís, Yamaha R1ís, Kawasakiís etc at the track and on the streets through the twisties. The other guys riding these bikes are also racers and very capable riders and some with better skill than myself. If I was beat at a track, itís because of riding skill differences not because I was down 15-20hp. Iíve been beat by a lot of people that have had significantly older bikes with less HP. Rider makes a big difference in the equation.

At the higher levels, yes, you are screwed. But for the majority of us mere mortals, the bike is a great bike and more than enough to be a formidable track weapon. Subtle changes made a huge difference in this bike. Honda has always been known to be on the arrogant side. They have Marquez, I truly donít think they are losing one ounce of sleep about what the sell to us. Lol. Plus, we have made calls to American Honda. They donít care. Yes, ití would have been nice to have a bike that performs like this one does but has top end on par with the bmw and Kawi. But it doesnít, and I have flogged the shit out of this bike and itís awesome! You really wouldnít be disappointed in having this bike or even the base model for that matter. Regardless of the HP.

Just my opinion.

X

I get what you are saying and cant argue any of your points. I'm sure it is a great bike, left alone. but as rc has found, the slightest moding and you run into a ton of trouble. honda has always made great bikes, for the people that are going to use them the most, normal people. they aren't great race bikes, they don't make the most power. but they are usually the lightest and best handling, and they are an awesome street bike. you don't have to sell me on honda, that's all i ride. (except for that 4 month period i rode a bmw, but we wont talk about that lol)



i guess what bugs me the most, and everyone else..... Honda has all the tech, all the knowledge, all the know how, and make a kick ass GP machine. but when are we going to see that knowledge and tech in the street bikes. every other manufacturer has been doing it for years, and finally in 2017 we finally see something... but its like they half ass'd it and didn't really put much thought into what they were doing. or is it the opposite, made it it to complicated and complex for street bikes. either way, it still leaves the majority party here scratching are heads like C'mon!!

sorry to rant in your build thread RC. please carry on. I love seeing all your fancy bits and reading of the progress your making.
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post #245 of 589 Old 06-11-2018, 12:56 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 954rr rider View Post
I didn't miss the point of the post, i get what you are sharing. you are simply showing how much the US version sucks because Honda has de-tuned it. My point is, this is there flag ship bike, the one that is suppose to be all the talk, you shouldn't have to do anything to it. the build you are doing is how the bike should have shown up at the dealer.




I get what you are saying and cant argue any of your points. I'm sure it is a great bike, left alone. but as rc has found, the slightest moding and you run into a ton of trouble. honda has always made great bikes, for the people that are going to use them the most, normal people. they aren't great race bikes, they don't make the most power. but they are usually the lightest and best handling, and they are an awesome street bike. you don't have to sell me on honda, that's all i ride. (except for that 4 month period i rode a bmw, but we wont talk about that lol)



i guess what bugs me the most, and everyone else..... Honda has all the tech, all the knowledge, all the know how, and make a kick ass GP machine. but when are we going to see that knowledge and tech in the street bikes. every other manufacturer has been doing it for years, and finally in 2017 we finally see something... but its like they half ass'd it and didn't really put much thought into what they were doing. or is it the opposite, made it it to complicated and complex for street bikes. either way, it still leaves the majority party here scratching are heads like C'mon!!

sorry to rant in your build thread RC. please carry on. I love seeing all your fancy bits and reading of the progress your making.
No worries mate. I shold not have been so quick to fire back - I knew the low numbers would be controversial

Imagine how the RC213V-S forums read LOL.



The Good RS250R NF5 The Bad TZ250 2KM The Ugly LS7 C5Z07 Gone but not forgotten RC45 Delivered US SP2 #65

SP2 Delivery Thread < - Delivery Thread

RC45's SP2 Trackday Bike Build Thread <- Build Thread

RC45's US vs UK ETV Tables Dyno <- Dyno Page

PAIR Mod HRC Style <- HRC PAIR Page

Myths & Mysteries of the SP2 ECU Thread <- ECU Thread
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post #246 of 589 Old 06-11-2018, 11:46 AM
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Watch WSBK, that will tell you what Honda has in store for consumer sport bikes.............

Move You Ass!
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post #247 of 589 Old 06-11-2018, 01:49 PM Thread Starter
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*post updated with video*

Cliffs notes:

148.8 w/ stock engine/exhaust & stock US ECU maps.
164.6 w/ stock engine/exhaust & stock Euro ECU maps.

Same day, same bike, same dyno, same conditions.


Had a chance to do the back to back 100% stock bike w/ US map vs 100% stock bike w/ Euro maps dyno.

The capped US bikes power delivery is very easy to see.

All runs where done with stock air filter and intake tubes.
Exhaust was changed on the dyno without unstrapping the bike to minimize variables.
Rear tire @ 28psi.

100% Stock ready for vitals.


Stock w/US maps



Stock w/Euro maps




Spark MotoGP exhaust ready for vitals.


Stock with Spark MotoGP exhaust w/Euro maps



Some extra ear candy









*
*



The Good RS250R NF5 The Bad TZ250 2KM The Ugly LS7 C5Z07 Gone but not forgotten RC45 Delivered US SP2 #65

SP2 Delivery Thread < - Delivery Thread

RC45's SP2 Trackday Bike Build Thread <- Build Thread

RC45's US vs UK ETV Tables Dyno <- Dyno Page

PAIR Mod HRC Style <- HRC PAIR Page

Myths & Mysteries of the SP2 ECU Thread <- ECU Thread
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post #248 of 589 Old 06-12-2018, 10:52 PM Thread Starter
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And a little more Ear Candy




The Good RS250R NF5 The Bad TZ250 2KM The Ugly LS7 C5Z07 Gone but not forgotten RC45 Delivered US SP2 #65

SP2 Delivery Thread < - Delivery Thread

RC45's SP2 Trackday Bike Build Thread <- Build Thread

RC45's US vs UK ETV Tables Dyno <- Dyno Page

PAIR Mod HRC Style <- HRC PAIR Page

Myths & Mysteries of the SP2 ECU Thread <- ECU Thread
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post #249 of 589 Old 06-14-2018, 11:00 AM
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Is that rear hugger stock or aftermarket? I don't recall seeing anything about it in this thread...
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post #250 of 589 Old 06-14-2018, 11:18 AM Thread Starter
RC45
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It is Ten Kate "large race hugger". Really suited for 2016 and older swing arm and needed some tweaking (actually a lot - cutting to fit around shock and drilling of holes) to fit.



The Good RS250R NF5 The Bad TZ250 2KM The Ugly LS7 C5Z07 Gone but not forgotten RC45 Delivered US SP2 #65

SP2 Delivery Thread < - Delivery Thread

RC45's SP2 Trackday Bike Build Thread <- Build Thread

RC45's US vs UK ETV Tables Dyno <- Dyno Page

PAIR Mod HRC Style <- HRC PAIR Page

Myths & Mysteries of the SP2 ECU Thread <- ECU Thread
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