Honda CBR 1000RR Forums banner
1 - 9 of 9 Posts

·
Registered
2004 CBR1000RR and numerous RC51's
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
First, I want to say Thankyou to the wealth of knowledge still being passed along. I have been researching how to best build my tired 04 engine for my needs, which is simply more years and years of track only use. Great info keeps popping up from these forums and I decided it be best I join the forums.

Back story is I bought my 04, stock, about 6 years ago with just 3,500 miles and thought that was too low of mileage to have any mechanical issues, but I was wrong. Once I started tracking it and using the higher rpms, I noticed the tailpipe was black with soot and it consumed oil. 8,000 track miles later I have embarked on an engine tear down and am rebuilding with 2mm overbore JE pistons as it’s all I could find in these times.

I am not chasing 200hp. I simply want what failed in the OEM parts to be sorted and added displacement and compression is fine too. The stock piston skirts shed material against the cylinder walls and the piston rings no longer seal so well, hence the oil burning.

PowerSealUSA will be doing the overbore, plating, and honing. I will be doing my best to assemble well and sort anything else.

No cams, no head work… just replace anything worn in the top end.
No changes to the crankshaft or connecting rods. Original bearings look excellent and are staying/reused. No milling the cylinders.

My questions for the engine gurus I know are here:

Cometic offers two head gasket thicknesses for this 77mm bore. The thinner of the two is darn close to the OEM thickness. Use that one versus the thicker to ensure compression from the new pistons is in the ballpark of what JE claims (13.5:1)? I assume the thicker gasket is for the 06-07 since it already has a milled cylinder compared to the 04-05 years and it also used a thicker OEM head gasket.

Thanks for any insight/help.
Again, not going crazy with this build but need reassurance that keeping it simple with just the JE overbore kit matched to the Cometic thinner head gasket will be a good build that will net me a healthy and reliable engine. Any power increase from added displacement and bumped up compression is a bonus for my build. I have included a photo of my cylinder 3 exhaust port and its caked up oily carbon deposits. The other ports weren’t nearly this bad. A photo of a beat up piston skirt and the cylinder damage. And a photo of what I use the bike for 😬
Fluid Gas Metal Eyelash Auto part

Silver Rim Automotive tire Auto part Circle

Hand Automotive tire Finger Gas Tire

Light Product Camera accessory Water Cameras & optics

Cloud Tire Sky Wheel Vehicle
 

·
Registered
2004 CBR1000RR and numerous RC51's
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I've come across a huge amount of knowledge here regarding extensive engine builds, but mine will be simpler. I'm not going to change every little thing and chase horsepower.

For the last 8,000 track miles, it has been burning oil and it's only getting worse so I have pulled the engine and torn it down for inspection. The verdict is that the piston skirts and cylinder walls traded a lot of material and that wore the piston rings. Everything else looks awesome in there. Crankshaft bearings all look great and ready for more.

I have JE 2mm overbore piston kit ordered and the cylinders are going to PowerSealUSA for boring/plating/honing work to match the pistons. The piston kits all bump the compression up and I want to make sure I do my homework for that changes in compression and displacement.

It's just going to be the piston kit and a matching head gasket. It will have to be the Cometic 77mm gasket and planning to use the thickness that is closer to the OEM 04 head gasket thickness as I have learned about all these differences between the 04-05 and 06-07 changes that factor into these related parts. All the one time use bolts and washers will be replaced and soon the head will be taken apart and cleaned/inspected to ensure the valve seats are still good.

No Carrillo rods, no HRC this or that, no changes to the cams, no porting/polishing the heads. Just refreshing the pistons and cylinders and going to let them play with the stock head. If it restores to mid 150's hp, I will be happy.

I want to try to get another 5+ years and whatever track mileage that is out of it without having to babysit the oil sight window like I have the past 5+ years.

So... thoughts. Easy nuff? Or is there anything I am overlooking or not yet learned through my hours and hours of researching how to best fix the problem? Please weight in.
 

·
Registered
2004 CBR1000RR and numerous RC51's
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
What type of fuel do you have access to in your area? 13.5 compression is significantly higher than stock, and contrary to what JE informed me over the phone, even on 93 octane there will be pinging issues especially at lower RPM's that require re-mapping the ignition table.

Overbore is no issue, but realize that tiny changes in thickness of the gasket have a dramatic +/- in compression ratio. Unless you are planning to re-do the ignition table, I would aim for a build that is close to stock 12:1 to 13:1.

Also, another option is to send the block to Millennium Technologies, and have them take a look because they offer a Nikasil restoration service where the ORIGINAL bore size can be maintained so all you would have to do is score a set of OEM pistons, which would be far cheaper.
I'm contemplating using the thicker Cometic head gasket just to ensure pump gas works fine. I have access to non ethanol 90 or 91 octane or 10% ethanol 93.

I kinda got things set in motion with the JE overbore kit set to arrive any day now and that's after a lot of consideration as to where to send the cylinders and what to have done to them to ensure this doesn't become a repetitive problem. I have had friends use Millennium and my brother used US Chrome, which isn't far away from Millennium, to restore a badly hurt RC51 cylinder a few years ago. All have had great results, but this smaller shop in Pennsylvania is the trusted shop for a world renowned Ducati/MV Agusta engine builder I am sorta studying under. Plus the basic rebore/plate/hone process is a bit more budget friendly.

The stock 04 compression is 11.9:1, so even if I aim for something in the 12's like the 06-07 years, I think it ought to like being fed 93 octane more than it has been with that lower compression. I have a power commander and plan to have a dyno tune once all done to ensure it fuels properly.

My trusted engine builder thinks the bike will like 93 octane even with a theorized 13.5:1 compression ratio, but if that starts to push the boundary of pump gas or premium grade fuel, I would want to stay a bit below that. Hence the no to milling the block and considering the thicker head gasket.

I wish I knew why my piston skirt/cylinder wall carnage happened, but I no longer trust the OEM stuff. Costs was the same between .025mm larger OEM pistons/rings and there's no knowing if that small of a rebore would clean up the bores, so I just want to start over with 2mm build.
 

·
Registered
2004 CBR1000RR and numerous RC51's
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
My engine guru agrees that the new pistons could benefit from coatings such as others mentioned if they don’t arrive with something already on the skirts.

Damage was done before my ownership. I’ve pulled apart a 600RR engine with as little as 500 miles that was worse as far as the gouges in the bores.

There are good reasons you see and hear every race team mechanic warm up the engine before a rider goes out for a session or the race and Yamaha went so far as to offer a warm-up option into their kit ECU’s for the R6.

I cringe whenever I hear a bike or a car get its engine revved hard just after start-up. That’s likely how damage like this occurs . I am certain the first owner was not kind to this bike. I’ve been exceptionally good with maintenance and keeping good oil in it, but 95% of my miles have been circling a track, which exaggerated whatever issue had already begun.

I could just keep feeding it oil every other day on the track as it’s the cheapest route. But I need a winter project to help with SAD/cabin fever and I decided this was going to be it. If all the bolts and seals to reassemble are available from Honda and in a timely manner, I am confident I won’t repeat that sort of wear and it will be better than I have ever known it. That’s the goal, at least.
 

·
Registered
2004 CBR1000RR and numerous RC51's
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Got the valves out so now it’s officially fully torn down.
Head is traveling with me to New Hampshire as we are having a track community getogether at the engine builders place. I want him to have a look at the valve seats and ensure a good cleaning of the head is all that’s required.

The building phase can now begin! YAY!!!
 

·
Registered
2004 CBR1000RR and numerous RC51's
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
those valve seats look worn way too wide..
I’ve been cleaning it up this morning. Intake side is done. From what I see, and again, I’m a newb to this, the seats look pristine. No gouges, pitting, and the valves turn on them with smooth precision when I was tooth brush scrubbing with Mopar combustion chamber cleaner.

I was worried chunks of carbon might have beat them up but it’s possible that the constant oil mist did them a favor.

Getting the valves clean as new may require an ultrasonic cleaning treatment. I just learned about lapping the valves and looks like a cheap and fun project that I will add to my to-do list.
Tire Wheel Automotive tire Rim Alloy wheel

Wheel Automotive tire Alloy wheel Synthetic rubber Hubcap

Automotive tire Synthetic rubber Wheel Hubcap Rim
 

·
Registered
2004 CBR1000RR and numerous RC51's
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The exhaust seats look like they do most likely due to the majority of the valves being bent. I discovered that last night while cleaning them.

The head is traveling with me to the engine building guru’s post Thanksgiving gathering where he will inspect and help figure out what it needs. He advised not to lap the valves, so no need to go down that path.

The intakes were laser straight and rechecking their seat to head surface, it’s as if they were exceptionally machined to fit together. Absolute confidence the intake side is good to go. Just gotta sort the exhaust side.

Hours more of cleaning the head and those nasty exhaust ports and seats has them all looking great. But looks don’t matter if new valves can’t mate up to those seats.

Appreciate the info. 👍
Wheel Automotive tire Alloy wheel Synthetic rubber Hubcap

Automotive tire Sunglasses Goggles Rim Helmet
 

·
Registered
2004 CBR1000RR and numerous RC51's
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Update: Post engine builder measuring and viewing head and associated parts.

The exhaust valves are bent and their guides are excessively worn.
Other than that, seats all looked great but that matters little now that the exhaust guides aren’t worth building this head back with new exhaust valves. A used head from ebay has been sourced and so long as it doesn’t have bent valves like mine or been subjected to many miles of bad piston rings fogging the combustion chambers with oil and making lots of nasty carbon deposits, then my top end woes should be fixed.

The JE pistons will be going to Calico for skirt coating treatment. Then upon their return, they and the cylinders go to the machine shop for the 2mm overbore work.

Alls that’s left is get a Honda parts order in soon and now I am researching eliminating the crankshaft counter balancer, not because I think it might be better off without it, but because I can tell it’s going to make assembly of the lower end a PITA.
 
1 - 9 of 9 Posts
Top