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turbo everything!...
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Discussion Starter #41
Since I would like to make this thread an ongoing thread with FACTUAL info, I will add any tidbits I think another person looking to build one of these engines would like to know.

That being said, I don't know where the rumor that the 06's have an HRC intake cam, but that's not true. If anything, the difference between 04-05 and 06-07 intake cams is solely lift, not duration.... Making 06-07 OEM intake cams not HRC spec. The exhaust cams appear identical (lift and duration).

Without reading Honda's press release literature, the main thing I notice different between the 04-05 and 06-07 OEM cams are; the process that the cam blanks were made are different. The un-machined portion of the 04-05 cams look like it was sand cast... you can see material imperfections (my HRC cams look like they were made in this era, as it has the same imperfections on the raw part of the cam).

The 06 OEM cams look like the entire billet was machined, as it has machining groves? or a much better forging/casting method was used for their construction. Without weighing them, the 06 OEM cams MAY be lighter than their predecessors? I don't know for sure, and honestly don't care enough to do any more than type about it...LOL...stock cams have no place in any bike that I own!...LOL... I'll start working on my head after the holidays.
 

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Deus Valt
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Since I would like to make this thread an ongoing thread with FACTUAL info, I will add any tidbits I think another person looking to build one of these engines would like to know.

That being said, I don't know where the rumor that the 06's have an HRC intake cam, but that's not true. If anything, the difference between 04-05 and 06-07 intake cams is solely lift, not duration.... Making 06-07 OEM intake cams not HRC spec. The exhaust cams appear identical (lift and duration).

Without reading Honda's press release literature, the main thing I notice different between the 04-05 and 06-07 OEM cams are; the process that the cam blanks were made are different. The un-machined portion of the 04-05 cams look like it was sand cast... you can see material imperfections (my HRC cams look like they were made in this era, as it has the same imperfections on the raw part of the cam).

The 06 OEM cams look like the entire billet was machined, as it has machining groves? or a much better forging/casting method was used for their construction. Without weighing them, the 06 OEM cams MAY be lighter than their predecessors? I don't know for sure, and honestly don't care enough to do any more than type about it...LOL...stock cams have no place in any bike that I own!...LOL... I'll start working on my head after the holidays.
You could have had any of these cams sent to web and ground to what ever spec you wanted in the time this thread has been going on .
I have a set of 04's 07's and set of 07's reground to the specs i posted earlier in this thread . I can measure each if you like to know the difference's . Our builds are'nt that diffrent , I have std JE's, Web cams, APE cam gears , HRC 06 Valve springs ( a spare set of HRC Basic race springs too ) . Get the the crank lighten /balanced currently and removing the balancer shaft then resembling . Keep In Mind to use any cams bigger than stock you will need a HRC ECU to see the full benefit .
 

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turbo everything!...
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Discussion Starter #43 (Edited)
You could have had any of these cams sent to web and ground to what ever spec you wanted in the time this thread has been going on .
I have a set of 04's 07's and set of 07's reground to the specs i posted earlier in this thread . I can measure each if you like to know the difference's . Our builds are'nt that diffrent , I have std JE's, Web cams, APE cam gears , HRC 06 Valve springs ( a spare set of HRC Basic race springs too ) . Get the the crank lighten /balanced currently and removing the balancer shaft then resembling . Keep In Mind to use any cams bigger than stock you will need a HRC ECU to see the full benefit .
Thanks, but I'm good on the cam specs...but feel free to post any info you have that may be useful to anyone else looking to do a simple head/cams combo or even a full on build...I intend to do both.

I was just posting what I've found about OEM cams; since I've read a couple different times that 06-07's have 04-05 era HRC intake cams...which is not true, that's all.

As for my build, I'm going to use the base racer cams that I have now for the head/cams build.... when I tear the engine back apart to do the bottom end, I'll send the base racer cams off to have 0.024" more lift ground into them (HRC sbk spec). The base racer cams have the same duration as the superbike cams, so if I can get the additional lift ground in and leave the duration alone, I'm good....no need to spend money twice.

Rotten , can you post a pic of your reground cam? I'm curious to see what a finished one looks like, because If they aren't adding material to the lobes, it doesn't seem like they will have enough material to increase lift and duration that much (from OEM cams). Can you post the specs from your cam card also.

Thanks for the input.

Oh yes, HRC ecu is next on list of parts to buy... I can tune my own bike, so I would like to be able to play with every aspect of engine control, so the HRC ecu is a no-brainer for me. Working on an automatic fan control circuit now... not sure what temp the fan usually comes on, but I'm thinking I'll have mine set to turn on around 190-200* and turn off around 180*
 

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Deus Valt
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Thanks, but I'm good on the cam specs...but feel free to post any info you have that may be useful to anyone else looking to do a simple head/cams combo or even a full on build...I intend to do both.

I was just posting what I've found about OEM cams; since I've read a couple different times that 06-07's have 04-05 era HRC intake cams...which is not true, that's all.

As for my build, I'm going to use the base racer cams that I have now for the head/cams build.... when I tear the engine back apart to do the bottom end, I'll send the base racer cams off to have 0.024" more lift ground into them (HRC sbk spec). The base racer cams have the same duration as the superbike cams, so if I can get the additional lift ground in and leave the duration alone, I'm good....no need to spend money twice.

Rotten , can you post a pic of your reground cam? I'm curious to see what a finished one looks like, because If they aren't adding material to the lobes, it doesn't seem like they will have enough material to increase lift and duration that much (from OEM cams). Can you post the specs from your cam card also.

Thanks for the input.

Oh yes, HRC ecu is next on list of parts to buy... I can tune my own bike, so I would like to be able to play with every aspect of engine control, so the HRC ecu is a no-brainer for me. Working on an automatic fan control circuit now... not sure what temp the fan usually comes on, but I'm thinking I'll have mine set to turn on around 190-200* and turn off around 180*
They grind of the base circle and you have shim the buckets to proper lash . A fan ? are you building a street bike ? I took my fan off , its just dead weight .

The cam looks like a stock cam with Friction coating other than that you would never know a difference .

I'm not gonna waste my time spec-ing a cam , these bikes are out of date and 99.9% of these bone heads wouldn't know what the were reading .
 

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turbo everything!...
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Discussion Starter #45
Rotten ... Yes, my bike is 100% streetbike. I'm not a road race guy, I'm a drag racer. I understand how they increase the lift when they regrind the cams, I was eluding to them increasing duration. When you said sbk spec cams, I was thinking about HRC spec duration of 255/250 degrees duration.

I see where you posted comparable duration numbers, so I got my answer... They can get the lift, but not the duration (just as I thought). I'm not sure how much HP difference is between 8 additional degrees of duration, but I'll take both when I can get it.
 

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Deus Valt
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I never said SBK spec cams , I have SBK valve springs .
You can increase Duration by grinding the base circle also . I choose the cams I have because I wanted to limit RPM to below 13250and not stress Valve springs and valves. but make 175-185 rwhp so these newer bike dont toast me in the straights .

For a street bike you be better off going with smaller cams and +2mm pistons , just sayin.
 

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turbo everything!...
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Discussion Starter #47
Rotten... I gotcha... We're in the same boat, because I refuse to buy a newer bike when I can modify the one I have. In my world that's how it goes for the most part, the ones who are willing to dig into the engine usually do it on bikes from 2007 - 2000 era.

I'm trying to build this bike on a Gixxer budget...lol... So no boring/replating for me... I'm doing custom pistons that use OEM rings (stock bore) when I go into the bottom end. Plus I'm spinning this engine to 13750 if I need to.
 

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It's basically been answered but to be technical the difference is an increase in intake valve lift in the 06-07 from 8.9mm to 9.1mm. Also double springs for the intake valves.

Just for ideas, I have a road race bike and built the motor. Reground my stock ones with WEB Racing but also have +2mm JE for more low/ mid range torque and my cam specks are towards mid to high end for all around increase. Also did bigger valves and port/polish with honda head gasket. Made 189whp 90.5 ft/lbs torque on 93 and 199whp 95 ft/lbs torque on mr-12. 13.5:1 so I can use the 93 whenever. Unfortunately I still have the stock ecu and have a lot of hidden power/ still stock rev limit. Here's specs from card.

Intake Exhaust
Valve lash: .006" - .008" , .008" - .010"
Valve Lift: .383 , .360
Duration: 276 , 266
Duration @ .050: 253 , 244
Lobe Center: 106 , 108
 

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turbo everything!...
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Discussion Starter #49
It's basically been answered but to be technical the difference is an increase in intake valve lift in the 06-07 from 8.9mm to 9.1mm. Also double springs for the intake valves.

Just for ideas, I have a road race bike and built the motor. Reground my stock ones with WEB Racing but also have +2mm JE for more low/ mid range torque and my cam specks are towards mid to high end for all around increase. Also did bigger valves and port/polish with honda head gasket. Made 189whp 90.5 ft/lbs torque on 93 and 199whp 95 ft/lbs torque on mr-12. 13.5:1 so I can use the 93 whenever. Unfortunately I still have the stock ecu and have a lot of hidden power/ still stock rev limit. Here's specs from card.

Intake Exhaust
Valve lash: .006" - .008" , .008" - .010"
Valve Lift: .383 , .360
Duration: 276 , 266
Duration @ .050: 253 , 244
Lobe Center: 106 , 108
Nickj321 thanks for sharing your setup and cam specs! That's a pretty potent combo! I may have to reconsider boring... 95 ft.lb. of torque is phenominal! My small turbo gixxer only had 105lb.ft. of torque, and it was a monster! A normally aspirated <1040cc bike with 95 ft.lb. is impressive! Even the 90 ft.lb on pump gas is an eye opener! Nice setup!
 

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turbo everything!...
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Discussion Starter #50
So the software on the HRC CD ROM is 16bit....won't work on my windows7 64 bit pc. I have to try to download a virtual computer, since I don't think a 32bit version of the software is circulating. Minor setback, but not a show-stopper, just an annoyance until I find a work-around.
 

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Hi Boy
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Why do you need a HRC ecu to run those cams? What's the difference between w/ a stock ecu and the HRC ecu besides the redline?
 

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turbo everything!...
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Discussion Starter #52
Haven't given up!

I revived my old thread because I didn't give up on my cbr... medical issues had me down for a few years, but I managed to hold on to my bike and my parts. I forgot about this thread, but stumbled on it while doing some research. Anyways, I got alot of good info off of this site, so this will be me giving back. I started back working on my build at the beginning of this year, so I've made some decent headway. I had the spare head I bought shave 0.030", ported my heads (just finished them last week, don't have the finished pics yet), and since velocity stacks are almost impossible to find, and carry an astronomical price when you do find a set, I researched and designed my own (I'm very proud of them!). I just need to get a set of adjustable cam gears, and I will be ready to pull the engine and swap the head/cams. I will post some pics of my head that I ported and my velocity stacks....pics are not of the finished head, and those are my prototype stacks, made some adjustments for fit and they will be done this week.
 

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turbo everything!...
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Discussion Starter #53
Why do you need a HRC ecu to run those cams? What's the difference between w/ a stock ecu and the HRC ecu besides the redline?
You don't necessarily need the HRC ecu to run the HRC cams, but they are designed to work together... the cam dictates the compression the engine needs to have...the high compression dictates that the ignition and fuel table be adjusted...also the whole package wants more rpms; which the ecu provides.
 

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turbo everything!...
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Discussion Starter #54
Funny, I ran across one of my old threads...also funny, because I've been still playing with these bikes since my last post.... Hmmmm...this would be a good old thread to revive now that I have some final numbers/answers....

So, I've built a stock piston/shaved head engine, I high compression/ported head/regrind cams engine, stock piston/shaved head/oem cams degreed engine, and I'm currently building a turbo charged all stock engine....I also have a +2mm engine that I'm going to build next month.

As God has blessed me with my own dyno, I've been testing and building every combination of engine in my budget and parts selection... I will post some graphs and info on each build.
 

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turbo everything!...
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Discussion Starter #55
oem pistons with shaved and ported head

This is a test I done with one of my cbr's....the bike at this time only had a full yosh rs5 exhaust, k&N race filters, and tuned bazzaaz. I flashed my own ecu and built my own tune...the results speak for themselves...I didn't expect a gain like that. I also tried my HRC sbk ecu that I had just for the heck of it...the bike didn't like those settings at all....FYI....I run my bikes on e85.
 

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turbo everything!...
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Discussion Starter #56
oem pistons with shaved and ported head

This is the same bike above with stock cams, pistons, and shaved heads...both heads were shaved 0.030"...one was stock (blue lines) and the other I ported (red line).
 

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turbo everything!...
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Discussion Starter #57 (Edited)
stock bore high compression

This is the bike above with a shaved & ported head, oem pistons, degreed oem cams, and full tune on e85 versus my other 06 cbr with HRC 14.5:1 pistons, ported head, Daniel Crower regrind cams (degreed), and full tune on e85...
 

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turbo everything!...
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Discussion Starter #58
turbo high compression bike...

This is the bike with shaved head and stock cams degreed that I added a turbo (subaru vf48) to...It has a massive leak at the plenum, so the engine is seeing maybe 3psi of boost... I was sorting a fueling issue while doing these pulls....I'm currently modifying the intake plenum so that it can seal properly and rebuilding the turbo...I am going to put a stock head and cams back on this bike, and boost it to 250-275whp on e85 once i add the bigger primary injectors....for now, I'm tuning it on VP MS109 race fuel...the big dip at 9k rpm is where I currently have 4 degrees of timing pulled while I get it all sorted out and start dialing in the boost pressure I intend on running (10-15psi).:stirpot:
 

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turbo everything!...
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Discussion Starter #59
final stock engine turbo build
This is the turbo bike with completely stock engine, 750cc lower injectors, high flow fuel pump, ecu flashed by me, and subaru vf48 turbo @ 10psi on E85... I can easily push this setup to 300hp, because it's a very conservative tune.
259752
 
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