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You have to wonder why they even bother.
All this money and effort to review a bike that will be limited to less than 50 units and cost $32,000 with tax and not even have the same specs as the bike they are testing.

WTF is American Honda’s game? All this effort and marketing to sell the bike to 47 people that didn’t even need the marketing to sell to?

Something is certainly fucked up about this entire Honda SuperBike program in the USA.

Who are the morons in charge of this fiasco? It’s like amateur night with the keystone cops.

In the meantime Honda actually sells the real fuggen bike (and in 2 models in 4 colors no less) in markets that are not being saturated with all this hype.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
@RC45 Maybe this link below will help? I get that it sucks for the consumer a bit but consider that Honda would LOVE to sell customer what they want if there were enough customer who actually would part with their cash! This is not Honda's fault but rather the EPA and the 80 db limit which is measured at roughly 50 % of max throttle....

This IS a halo product and Honda wants to win World SBK races in addition to their MotoGP effort.

The reality is these bikes are expensive to develop and the forks on the SP model are the same as the Yamaha R1M, Ducati's V4R and Fogarty V4S; all of these bikes are even more expensive than the Honda. Even the Stylema calipers are about 2x as expensive as the standard cast Brembos you might find on something like the ZX-10R(R) or GSX-R1000(R).

A new motor, TITANIUM rods, new chassis, low friction technologies, etc all add up. My 2019 ZX-10RR was like 25k and it didn't come with electronic suspension or carbon fiber and even Ohlins (except for the steering damper)! It was super expensive for a ZX-10R BUT but those titanium rods and Marchesini 7-spoke wheels added about 9k onto the MSRP (25k vs 16k)!

How much was the RC45 when they came out? I had a RC30 (made in 1991) and THAT bike cost MORE than a loaded Mustang GT at the time (19k)!

Bikes these days are NOT cheap and you really wouldn't want them to be....I am inclined to say they are probably worth every damn penny given the capabilities and we are actually really LUCKY manufacturers still want to make really amazing bikes like these and sell them to the public. Never before has the gap between a factory superbike and what you can actually buy from a dealer been so close. Case in point, I bought a V4R to turn into a track bike. All I did was full exhaust, Stomp Grip, rearsets and bodywork, that is it! Literally nothing else and on the stock street tires I was only 1.5 seconds slower than my race pace (on my first outing at a track day) versus my legit race bike (2019 ZX-10RR) with Dunlop slicks and tire warmers.....and I'm a consistent top 10 racer in the expert superbike class with all orgs in CA (WERA, AFM and CVMA).

--> The Code of Federal Regulations of the United States of America
 

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You have to wonder why they even bother.
All this money and effort to review a bike that will be limited to less than 50 units and cost $32,000 with tax and not even have the same specs as the bike they are testing.

WTF is American Honda’s game? All this effort and marketing to sell the bike to 47 people that didn’t even need the marketing to sell to?

Something is certainly fucked up about this entire Honda SuperBike program in the USA.

Who are the morons in charge of this fiasco? It’s like amateur night with the keystone cops.

In the meantime Honda actually sells the real fuggen bike (and in 2 models in 4 colors no less) in markets that are not being saturated with all this hype.
I don't think American Honda has any influence over Honda Japan. I'm not certain they even run their own website. They're merely a distributor that has to accept whatever Honda decides to give them.
 

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@RC45 Maybe this link below will help? I get that it sucks for the consumer a bit but consider that Honda would LOVE to sell customer what they want if there were enough customer who actually would part with their cash! This is not Honda's fault but rather the EPA and the 80 db limit which is measured at roughly 50 % of max throttle....

This IS a halo product and Honda wants to win World SBK races in addition to their MotoGP effort.

The reality is these bikes are expensive to develop and the forks on the SP model are the same as the Yamaha R1M, Ducati's V4R and Fogarty V4S; all of these bikes are even more expensive than the Honda. Even the Stylema calipers are about 2x as expensive as the standard cast Brembos you might find on something like the ZX-10R(R) or GSX-R1000(R).

A new motor, TITANIUM rods, new chassis, low friction technologies, etc all add up. My 2019 ZX-10RR was like 25k and it didn't come with electronic suspension or carbon fiber and even Ohlins (except for the steering damper)! It was super expensive for a ZX-10R BUT but those titanium rods and Marchesini 7-spoke wheels added about 9k onto the MSRP (25k vs 16k)!

How much was the RC45 when they came out? I had a RC30 (made in 1991) and THAT bike cost MORE than a loaded Mustang GT at the time (19k)!

Bikes these days are NOT cheap and you really wouldn't want them to be....I am inclined to say they are probably worth every damn penny given the capabilities and we are actually really LUCKY manufacturers still want to make really amazing bikes like these and sell them to the public. Never before has the gap between a factory superbike and what you can actually buy from a dealer been so close. Case in point, I bought a V4R to turn into a track bike. All I did was full exhaust, Stomp Grip, rearsets and bodywork, that is it! Literally nothing else and on the stock street tires I was only 1.5 seconds slower than my race pace (on my first outing at a track day) versus my legit race bike (2019 ZX-10RR) with Dunlop slicks and tire warmers.....and I'm a consistent top 10 racer in the expert superbike class with all orgs in CA (WERA, AFM and CVMA).

--> The Code of Federal Regulations of the United States of America
None of this is news to me. I have literally spent the last 3 years eating sleeping and drinking this fiasco.

My point is American Honda is again trucking over the US consumer.
 

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Huh?

Just read that review.

And they've cut your (USA) revs back to 12,000? (I guess it makes sense with the horsepower cut, but I just didn't factor in the RPM)

Bloody hell, it just gets worse and worse!! Merely a shadow of the bike it's supposed to be:(.
Others have mentioned it's to meet sound/loudness regulations in USA. I remember reading something to the effect that the volume is measured at half the peak RPM, which in this case would be 6000RPM for the US bike, which is while the exhaust flap is still routing exhaust through the "quiet" route. Guess it wasn't worth the effort to find another way of reducing noise without cutting 30hp...
 

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The majority of the offending noise is ironically the intake and induction roar - most mufflers are quite quiet in the grand scheme. So that's why the revs get cut, ETV tables altered and more than likely intake tube restriction to help quell the intake noise.

And while these are all relatively simple fixes, voiding ones warranty just to run and gun with the other bikes int he same class is still an unpleasant exercise.
And none of the other players are so severly restricted on top - most of the other players simply nerf the mid range but still allow the bike to breath well at the top end where the noise is not taken into account.

See BMW, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Ducati and Aprilia if you want a stock bike with decent top end in the USA.

Honda just choose to be ultra conservative in the US market.
 

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Huh?

Just read that review.

And they've cut your (USA) revs back to 12,000? (I guess it makes sense with the horsepower cut, but I just didn't factor in the RPM)

Bloody hell, it just gets worse and worse!! Merely a shadow of the bike it's supposed to be:(.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but due to the USA noise emission requirements, by reducing the RPM thus noise is one way (easiest) to meet their target? The reduced HP compared to the Euro stock bikes is simply the by-product of reducing RPM limits imposed, especially with the 2020 CBR as it is designed to be a high revving motor
 

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but due to the USA noise emission requirements, by reducing the RPM thus noise is one way (easiest) to meet their target? The reduced HP compared to the Euro stock bikes is simply the by-product of reducing RPM limits imposed, especially with the 2020 CBR as it is designed to be a high revving motor
That's the case. Since this bike makes the power at the top, a lot is lost by reducing the redline.

The positive is that the differences are artificial/electronic instead of mechanical, so once flashing is figured out we'll have the power back.
 

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That's the case. Since this bike makes the power at the top, a lot is lost by reducing the redline.

The positive is that the differences are artificial/electronic instead of mechanical, so once flashing is figured out we'll have the power back.
Not sure where you folks are seeing the rev limit is being dropped to 12,000rpm,

Peak power power for the US bike will be at 12,000rpm rather than 14,000rpm+ like the rest of the world.

Same as with the SC77, peak power is at about 10,500 on the US bike versus about 12,500 for the rest of the world.

US SC77 rev limit is 13,500 vs rest of the world 13,800.

I suspect the US SC82 rev limit will be 14,000 vs the rest of the world 14,500.

Power will be restricted by not allowing full throttle above 12,000 thus power will not increase above that point.

My guess is 100% throttle will stop at 12,000 and by 12,500 it will be capped at 70% from 12,500 to 14,000rpm.
 

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Not sure where you folks are seeing the rev limit is being dropped to 12,000rpm,

Peak power power for the US bike will be at 12,000rpm rather than 14,000rpm+ like the rest of the world.

Same as with the SC77, peak power is at about 10,500 on the US bike versus about 12,500 for the rest of the world.

US SC77 rev limit is 13,500 vs rest of the world 13,800.

I suspect the US SC82 rev limit will be 14,000 vs the rest of the world 14,500.
By meddling with the ETV tables only? The US spec SC77 ETV's are capped to 73% which I am aware of, I just thought they were RPM restricted as well for some reason which didn't allow them to build peak power in combination.
 

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By meddling with the ETV tables only? The US spec SC77 ETV's are capped to 73% which I am aware of, I just thought they were RPM restricted as well for some reason which didn't allow them to build peak power in combination.
Yes, that's it. I got a response from Woolich stating they've got files from both EUR and USA ECUs and can see the USA ETVs are capped.

Stated in the link as posted #21 by @roadracerx :

'When the Fireblade lands stateside, claimed peak output to suit US regulations will be 186 hp at 12,000 rpm.'
Yeah, we were equating "peak horsepower" with redline, which isn't the case. Just it happens at a lower RPM in the USA thanks to our capped ETVs...
 

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For US SC77s, not only are is the max throttle butterfly movement limited to 73%, but the tables themselves lack any resolution above 11,000rpm.

So what ever the value is at 11, carries to redline.

There is always a chance one of these days, that either the EPA will demand or Honda will be such cowards, they will try bake into the ECU some limitation that prevents tampering with table values above certain RPMs that have been preset.

We already see similar restrictions making it very hard to manipulate O2, PAIR & EVAP settings in the current SP & SP2 ECUs. (And R1M)

If you try remove any emissions equipment without flashing, the ECU will hard error lock.

Hopefully Honda haven’t gone full Nazi with the US SC82 ECU.
 

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I've asked this in another thread and got no response... how are the other manufacturers putting out such loud bikes (Ducati in particular) and posting such high HP numbers if they are meeting the same EPA restrictions? I read somewhere on the internet (so it must be true) that some other sportbike manufacturers just ignored the EPA restrictions and sold bikes that did not meet them.
 

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I've asked this in another thread and got no response... how are the other manufacturers putting out such loud bikes (Ducati in particular) and posting such high HP numbers if they are meeting the same EPA restrictions? I read somewhere on the internet (so it must be true) that some other sportbike manufacturers just ignored the EPA restrictions and sold bikes that did not meet them.
Any testing evidence that proves other manufacturers are not meeting EPA standards? The SP coming to the US is a 2021 year model. Not sure if there are different standards for that year.
 

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Answer is simple.

Honda have no interest in the US sport bike market.

Other manufacture are not ignoring EPA regs, they are meeting them and getting type certification. They are just spending the time and effort to at least try have the bike not be totally market irrelevant.
 
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