[tn1krr]

After installing Moriwaki Stage 2 (Race) Full System and PCIII USB last thursday I spent some time playing with PCIII software and looked through some maps.
I'm currently running Akra Full system Euro map as there is no Dynojet map available for Moriwaki Full system in an Euro bike (I'll have the bike mapped in dyno later today). One thing that struck pretty odd to me were huge differences between Akra Full system US and Euro maps. There appeared to be tens of % differences with 100% throttle. Check out the picture below.

I'm far from expert in these (never looked at PCIII stuff/mappings before this weekend) subjects but it appears to me that there are (big?) differences in default injection mappings between US and Euro models. If someone wants to take a look at this all the necessary software + maps can be downloaded from Dynojet even if you don't own PCIII. Am I interpreting this correctly? Any ideas why this would be? Pollution requlations? Would this have an effect on power output?

 

[EE8]

I think it could affect performance and that would explain why the new blade gets better results compared to the other 1000s on the euro mags than over in the US.
Euro bikes require at least 95 octane fuel and that alone would require diffrent mapping.

 

[tn1krr]

I think it could affect performance and that would explain why the new blade gets better results compared to the other 1000s on the euro mags than over in the US.
Euro bikes require at least 95 octane fuel and that alone would require diffrent mapping.

Good point. Did not think about the fuel stuff at all . We don't even have anything "below" 95 unleaded available here.

 

[viper]

So,
...now I think this could bee an answer to my question posted earlier
see: http://www.1000rr.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=698

Check the graphs and pic's too if you are registered, never tought of the fuel matter :banghead:
I myself use SHELL V-Power Racing in my bikes and it will bee the juice in my Blade (once it arrives :cruising: ) it has 100 octane (acording to SHELL) the difference between any other stations 98 octane juice can bee really felt! Not to mention the "normal" 95

 

[LDH]

The EPA equivalent in the UK tests for emissions & noise abatement at different rpms than they do here in the US that is why the ECU's have different mappings. On the RC we hooked up the UK, US & AUS ECU's to an oscilloscope & plotted the differences, obviously I haven't had the time or opportunity to do that for the RR yet, but it is on the list of things to do.

The fuel octane ratings in the UK are the same as the US, the difference is the formula that they calculate the octane rating with.

 

[EE8]

I think it could affect performance and that would explain why the new blade gets better results compared to the other 1000s on the euro mags than over in the US.
Euro bikes require at least 95 octane fuel and that alone would require diffrent mapping.

Good point. Did not think about the fuel stuff at all . We don't even have anything "below" 95 unleaded available here.

Exactly... and emissions are also more strict in the US also.

 

[LDH]

& changing the octane rating alone does not require a fueling mixture change. Octane rating is only the resistance to detonation.

Blends of fuels based on the additives in them many times require A/F and/or timing changes, but just changing the octane rating on pump gas does not.

http://www.rc51.org/fuel.htm

 

[mullerr666]

Yeah, good point 'bout the fuel, but that graph difference is huge... I cant explain it !
There are different models for different regions to satisfy a countries EPA regulations (pollution), but I wouldnt expect that big a difference.
tn1krr, Id be interested in your comments and new maps after getting it on the dyno. Keep us informed as I'm toying with the idea of a PC3 myself.

 

[EE8]

& changing the octane rating alone does not require a fueling mixture change. Octane rating is only the resistance to detonation.

Blends of fuels based on the additives in them many times require A/F and/or timing changes, but just changing the octane rating on pump gas does not.

http://www.rc51.org/fuel.htm

Yes you´re right but the higher the octane reading the more advance (ignition timing) you can run, wich will influence the power especially under high loads and low rpm´s.

For example I own a Honda Integra TypeR and the Euro spec engine comes with the same specs as the Japanese one 11.1 compression ratio.

However it´s counterpart in the US has less compression 10.8 to account for the lower octane fuel available in the US, without risk of detonation.
On the other hand there is a diference in ECU from the Euro to the jap engine, one of the reasons beeing that Octane readings in Japan is higher, in the 105oct region.
Now as the engine specs are the same for the blade all over the world I could imagine they went down with ingnition timing and some diffrent fuel/injection maps to take into consideration stricter EPA rules.
But I´m no expert in this and there are always many variables to take into consideration. :?
But fact is that the new liter bikes tested in Europe are all closer together in terms of horsepower and torque figures than in the US. :headscra:

This could be a reasonable explanation for it. What do you guys think?

 

[LDH]

Yes you´re right but the higher the octane reading the more advance (ignition timing) you can run, wich will influence the power especially under high loads and low rpm´s.

For example I own a Honda Integra TypeR and the Euro spec engine comes with the same specs as the Japanese one 11.1 compression ratio.

However it´s counterpart in the US has less compression (10.8) to account for the lower octane fuel available in the US, without risk of detonation.
On the other hand there is a diference in ECU from the Euro to the jap engine, one of the reasons beeing that Octane readings in Japan is higher, in the 105oct region.
Now as the engine specs are the same for the blade all over the world I could imagine they went down with ingnition timing and some diffrent fuel/injection maps to take into consideration stricter EPA rules.
But I´m no expert in this and there are always many variables to take into consideration. :?
But fact is that the new liter bikes tested in Europe are all closer together in terms of horsepower and torque figures than in the US. :headscra:

This could be a reasonable explanation for it. What do you guys think?

That's all wonderful except for one little thing... The PCIII doesn't adjust timing.

As I said octane alone does not require fueling changes.

 

[EE8]

That's all wonderful except for one little thing... The PCIII doesn't adjust timing.

As I said octane alone does not require fueling changes.

Yes I know and you are right, but I think that the ecu itself might have different settings not just the timing but eventually to some extend the fuelling also. And that does affect power delivery. The data at least seems to lead to that. But you already tried to compare a similar situation regarding the RC51 ecu´s. What where the differences you found?

 

[LDH]

In regards to the RC, the fueling is definitely different on all the various region ECU's & so is the range of operation for the flapper valves & again different countries do their noise & emissions testing at different rpms etc... The Australian ECU is actually the best one for performance & curiously they don't have the PAIR systems installed on the Australian bikes either.

 

[EE8]

In regards to the RC, the fueling is definitely different on all the various region ECU's & so is the range of operation for the flapper valves & again different countries do their noise & emissions testing at different rpms etc... The Australian ECU is actually the best one for performance & curiously they don't have the PAIR systems installed on the Australian bikes either.

That´s very interesting to know. :thumbup: I wonder if the same will apply to new blade?
We need more testing.
I think the JDM ecu would be the best perhaps, since the japanese always leave the best stuff for their own market.

 

[LDH]

Actually they don't the Japanese bikes are many times very restricted

 

[EE8]

Actually they don't the Japanese bikes are many times very restricted

Oh bummer...

 

[IronNutz]

Actually they don't the Japanese bikes are many times very restricted

I don't research Japanese market bikes so I can't disagree with you on that, but that is interesting considering their performance car market is the complete opposite. The Subaru WRX for example: The American spec car is greatly detuned in comparison to the Jap spec. They adjusted the boost, timing, and fuel in the ECU to meet the more stringent emissions and fuel economy regulations in the US.

The result: The Jap spec car has about 25 more ponies in stock trim, due to not being as restricted.

 

[LDH]

LOL I cannot attest to anything having to do with Japanese cars, but I do know that many of their bikes are detuned very similar to the French models.

 

[SecretAgentRR]

Actually they don't the Japanese bikes are many times very restricted

I don't research Japanese market bikes so I can't disagree with you on that, but that is interesting considering their performance car market is the complete opposite. The Subaru WRX for example: The American spec car is greatly detuned in comparison to the Jap spec. They adjusted the boost, timing, and fuel in the ECU to meet the more stringent emissions and fuel economy regulations in the US.

The result: The Jap spec car has about 25 more ponies in stock trim, due to not being as restricted.

keep in mind tho every japanese car is prohibited to have more than 276hp, or 280ps, due to the gentleman's agreement. the USDM STi has 30 more hp, .5L more displacement, and a bigger turbo.

 

[IronNutz]

I'm not exactly sure what it is you're saying, but I do know the Jap spec motor is capable of handling well over 300 HP in stock trim, while the EJ205 "World motor" is only safe up to around 280 HP before you start getting broken ring lands or scuffed pistons.

 

[dso]

Bikes for domestic market in Japanese are limited to 100HP. It is self-imposed by the manufacturers. This leads to a market for so called reverse import, which imports exported bikes.