Honda CBR 1000RR Forums banner

61 - 80 of 167 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,360 Posts
So not to derail the OP's thread...hoping they are as interested in this as I am...but does re-flashing the ECU to remove this limit pose any threat to engine longevity? Would I be risking damaging anything? I'm going to look this up for cost...very curious to see what this bike is like without the restrictions.

Shaun
No worries on engine damage or longevity. Optimizing your air to fuel ratios and timing can only be a good thing. Just don't have them raise the rev limiter AT ALL!!!!
Might lose some MPG but who buys a supersport for gas mileage?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter #62
Awesome write up!

So we have the same bike. I picked mine up about a month ago, but I've barely put 600 miles on it lol.

Couple of things I wanted to comment on as I was reading through the thread:

1. Mid Range. For me, this bike is the replacement for a 2006 CBR1000RR, and compared to the '06, the 2018 has a much weaker mid range, and a substantially weaker low end (unless there is something wrong with my bike!). I ride 100% on the street, and I feel the power band on this bike is designed completely for the track. In any case, once you get above 7k, this thing is a rocket. Even short-shifting 1st at 7-8k, and giving it hell shifiting into 2nd is bonkers. Or taking 2nd up to the redline and shifting into 3rd with full throttle...it's intoxicating. I can't believe how hard it pulls considering it's relative lack of power.

2. The exhaust sound, even with the OEM can, is incredible. It's not very loud...quiet at idle...but the sound is just awesome. And it gets loud in the upper range. Probably one of my favorite aspects of this bike is hearing it open up on the freeway. I'm hesitant to put an aftermarket can on it for that very reason. I like the sound of the OEM too much.

3. I, too, had issues with the torque control. I thought I had a dirty air filter or bad plug at one point, because the bike almost felt like it was hesitating. Once I figured out the issue, though, that promptly went away.

4. If you haven't figured out the tank cover yet, once you remove all 4 bolts, there are, in fact, little tabs, one on each side under the 'tank grip' parts, that kind of hook inside the frame. So while you pull up on the cover, just press inward on each side of the tank where the leg grips are and it'll pop right off.

5. I waited 300 miles before I really got on it. Did the initial oil change, then headed for the twisties. I feel like the engine may not have been completely broken in at 300 miles, or even 400 miles. Now that I'm around 600, the bike feels like it pulls much harder through the entire rev range, and I can only attribute that everything finally being seated. Or maybe it's just placebo?

6. I'd say my only real gripes with the bike are the seat (but who buys these things for the seat??), and the lack of low/mid power. And even those aren't 'bad' things. This bike is a great package, even if we have the absolute base trim (I also do not have ABS or the quick-shifter). It's light, it's fast, looks great, Honda build quality and reliability, sounds amazing, handles like a dream...there is a lot to like about this bike!

I do have one question for you - once your bike is at operating temperature, does it seem to have a slight amount of lope in the idle? My bike had a lot of lope initially and I learned it was due to the battery terminals not being secured tight enough. I torqued them down and that made it much better, but I still feel like it idles slightly off. Do you notice that with yours at all?

Shaun
1.) I guess it's about expectations on the mid range torque. I expected less and got more than expected for a 13,000 rpm engine.

2). I agree completely. I can't get enough of the exhaust sound when I roll into it.

3). I still am figuring it out. I had it feel like it was missing on me again the other day accelerating hard in third gear coming off a curve. I think it is either the back tire slipping even though I'm not feeling it, or the front tire just starting to come off the ground and again I'm not feeling it. But on many pulls it did not "miss". Maybe just a better road surface. I tried to turn the Torque to "0" while out on my ride, but forgot how to do it. I think you actually have to pull over and shut the engine off and do it with just the ignition turned on but not running. On my list to try tomorrow.

4). Thanks. I've had the tank cover off a couple of times now. Very easy once you figure out you are not going to break any tabs.

5) I'll just say yes, the bike feels faster than I expected.

6) I generally do not have seat issues on my SuperSport bikes (meaning the CBR and Ducati I had) because my weight is spread between my butt, arms/hands and legs. Seat comfort is very important to me on my other bikes because I"m sitting upright enough that almost all of my weight is on my butt. But I did find the limits on the CBR the other day. I put 302 miles on it and at about 270 miles I really started feeling butt pain. But I seldom put over 200-250 on the SuperSport, so it won't be an issue. I have other bikes for the longer miles.

Yes, I do notice the lope at idle. I thought it was odd to, but decided it did not warrant much thought.

Thanks for the reply. It's nice to have someone else on the forum with an identical bike going through the same stage of learning the bike as I am.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
[...]
6. I'd say my only real gripes with the bike are the seat (but who buys these things for the seat??), and the lack of low/mid power. And even those aren't 'bad' things. This bike is a great package, even if we have the absolute base trim (I also do not have ABS or the quick-shifter). It's light, it's fast, looks great, Honda build quality and reliability, sounds amazing, handles like a dream...there is a lot to like about this bike!
[...]
Thanks for the write-up. I love reading it!

Here's a comparison of the torque curves of the 2005, 2006, 2018.
259395


259396


259397


It's clear that the rise of the Orange curve for the 2018, compared to the 2005 and 2006, is more gradual in the 1K-6K range; whereas the first two are more bulgy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
[...]
I hate that your impression of the bike is so skewed by the severe throttle restrictions in place on the US bike in order to meet US DOT noise restrictions.
[...]
I understand what you are saying and I'm not questioning you, just trying to understand this better.
So, why didn't the older models have such US DOT restrictions that cause them to lose their low-mid-range torque?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
Got it. Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
I wished the torque curve looks like this ... that will give us a perfect linear acceleration (with 100% predictability).
259398
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
[...]
3). I still am figuring it out. I had it feel like it was missing on me again the other day accelerating hard in third gear coming off a curve. I think it is either the back tire slipping even though I'm not feeling it, or the front tire just starting to come off the ground and again I'm not feeling it. But on many pulls it did not "miss". Maybe just a better road surface. I tried to turn the Torque to "0" while out on my ride, but forgot how to do it. I think you actually have to pull over and shut the engine off and do it with just the ignition turned on but not running. On my list to try tomorrow.
[...]
Jim,
When you figure it out, please let us know. I'm curious.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jjscsix

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,912 Posts
Except 70nm at 2500rpm would melt the tire off the rim so you would still only feed in enough power to not spin the tire.
Honda's philosophy is it is better to only feed in a little more power than you need to go as fast as you need so you don't have to rely on traction control to stop the tire spinning or kill the wheelie and then start accelerating again after regaining lost grip.

As for running Torque Control at 0 of course can expect to spin the tire more and slow forward progression - but if the bike is spinning the tire in stock tune then those tires need to go. :)

You can set Torque Control to 0 on the fly. Easiest to do at a traffic light. Hold Mode and get to T, change value to 1 then hold down arrow for 3 seconds and 0 you get.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter #69 (Edited)
Except 70nm at 2500rpm would melt the tire off the rim so you would still only feed in enough power to not spin the tire.
Honda's philosophy is it is better to only feed in a little more power than you need to go as fast as you need so you don't have to rely on traction control to stop the tire spinning or kill the wheelie and then start accelerating again after regaining lost grip.

As for running Torque Control at 0 of course can expect to spin the tire more and slow forward progression - but if the bike is spinning the tire in stock tune then those tires need to go. :)

You can set Torque Control to 0 on the fly. Easiest to do at a traffic light. Hold Mode and get to T, change value to 1 then hold down arrow for 3 seconds and 0 you get.
I'm sitting at my desk with the owners manual in front of me now, and studying my financials (its raining today as you know) to see if I have any money left :) I read the part in the manual that I missed while out riding the other day - that I have to have it in the "1" mode to get to the "0" mode. I had set the "User 2" mode to "0" the other day. Apparently it defaults back to "1" next time you start the bike, correct? EDIT: I can actually go out and check right now because I set it to "0" in my garage this morning. I did not lose traction pushing it around in my garage though. I guess my skinny 67 year old ass does not have enough strength to brake it loose in pushing the bike around the garage ;)

Being the organized person I am, I actually wrote down the sequence to get it back to "0" tomorrow morning while I"m out. I don't carry the owners manual with me on the bike.

Thanks for your reply. You are a great asset and a Corvette guy! BTW, I watched a video of yours on the car. We could meet for lunch and use the rear wing as a picnic table :) :) :)

EDIT: I did confirm that it defaults back to "1" next time you start the bike. It will not stay set with Torque set to "0"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter #70
I guess because this is my thread, I can post a picture of my last Corvette too...
259399
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,912 Posts
[snip...]

Thanks for your reply. You are a great asset and a Corvette guy! BTW, I watched a video of yours on the car. We could meet for lunch and use the rear wing as a picnic table :) :) :)

EDIT: I did confirm that it defaults back to "1" next time you start the bike. It will not stay set with Torque set to "0"
:unsure: (y) :ROFLMAO: We have heard it all already - I have been running a full size functional down-force package for a decade and a half now.
And it works so well even the factory insisted on go big or go home when looking for down force on the C7 and now the C8 ;)

My daughter and I have racked up 112,000 miles in our C5Z06 over the last 20 years - she has been riding shotgun with me since she was 4 years old and couldn't see over the dash from her car seat.
We have been shocking the fair weather driver, jorts and gold chain Corvette crowd for many years now. Picnics on the hood of the car, driving in the rain, ferrying tires and tools around, sporting a matt black roof before Plastidip was a thing..
Hell, we been everywhere man, we been everywhere' we been off road, on road and everywhere in between man :ROFLMAO:;):cool:








 

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter #75
Jim,
When you figure it out, please let us know. I'm curious.
So let me update based upon my ride this morning. With the settings at 1-1-3, I’d got the same hiccup in Acceleration as I described above. While I may not remember everything, the pattern seems to be that it does it in third gear as I gradually accelerate moderately hard through 6-8,000 rpm. It’s almost As though the butterflies flutter a few times, then clears up. If I just pin the throttle wide open it does not do it, ever.

Then I stopped and turned torque to “0”. For reasons I’ll get to in a minute, and just the fact that I had Traction/wheelie control off, I was being a little cautious but still running harder than your average bear. I got the same thing happening.

It also did a couple of odd things in the middle of curves before I even got to the apex. But that tells me nothing because after all that, I stopped at my now favorite “coffee shop” for about an hour. As I was putting on my gear to head back the other way, I noticed what turned out to be a 1-1/2 inch wood screw in my back tire. Fortunately I carry a tire repair kit with me on all my bikes. I plugged the tire and rode home at a pace that would get me kicked off this forum. I assume the screw could have caused the odd behavior in the curves, even though the tire pressure still showed about 38 or so before I pulled the screw out.

I’m not sure what to make of the third gear stutter. I don’t think now that it is due to losing traction becasue I’m not at full throttle yet when it does it, and it’s never done it when I’m at full throttle under the same conditions. On the other hand, it is intermittent and it’s possible I have not truly defined the conditions correctly. It’s not totally repeatable so it makes it hard for me to remember exactly the parameters.

I’m guessing I’ll be riding the other bikes for the next week while waiting for a new tire. I’m going to put on a Diable Rossa III, so that will throw another variable at me.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,912 Posts
So let me update based upon my ride this morning. With the settings at 1-1-3, I’d got the same hiccup in Acceleration as I described above. While I may not remember everything, the pattern seems to be that it does it in third gear as I gradually accelerate moderately hard through 6-8,000 rpm. It’s almost As though the butterflies flutter a few times, then clears up. If I just pin the throttle wide open it does not do it, ever.

Then I stopped and turned torque to “0”. For reasons I’ll get to in a minute, and just the fact that I had Traction/wheelie control off, I was being a little cautious but still running harder than your average bear. I got the same thing happening.

It also did a couple of odd things in the middle of curves before I even got to the apex. But that tells me nothing because after all that, I stopped at my now favorite “coffee shop” for about an hour. As I was putting on my gear to head back the other way, I noticed what turned out to be a 1-1/2 inch wood screw in my back tire. Fortunately I carry a tire repair kit with me on all my bikes. I plugged the tire and rode home at a pace that would get me kicked off this forum. I assume the screw could have caused the odd behavior in the curves, even though the tire pressure still showed about 38 or so before I pulled the screw out.

I’m not sure what to make of the third gear stutter. I don’t think now that it is due to losing traction becasue I’m not at full throttle yet when it does it, and it’s never done it when I’m at full throttle under the same conditions. On the other hand, it is intermittent and it’s possible I have not truly defined the conditions correctly. It’s not totally repeatable so it makes it hard for me to remember exactly the parameters.

I’m guessing I’ll be riding the other bikes for the next week while waiting for a new tire. I’m going to put on a Diable Rossa III, so that will throw another variable at me.
3rd gear at 7000rpm in P1 the your throttle-body butterfly valves would be at about 45% open based on 50% twist of your wrist
At 7000rpm and that throttle position the fueling of most tunes would be between 20 and 30% richer than stock anyway.
Sounds like you might just encountering stock lean tune part throttle behavior.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter #77
3rd gear at 7000rpm in P1 the your throttle-body butterfly valves would be at about 45% open based on 50% twist of your wrist
At 7000rpm and that throttle position the fueling of most tunes would be between 20 and 30% richer than stock anyway.
Sounds like you might just encountering stock lean tune part throttle behavior.
I was hoping you would offer your expertise. I assume your "tune" addresses these issues, correct? I'm at a point in my life that I prefer not to mod my bikes, but I'm not going to completely rule it out either.

At this point I'm curious as to how common this issue is. So far I'm only seeing two of us. I also want to experiment more with the different modes and in different gears. I probably need to better understand what rpm I'm at and an approximation as to how hard I'm on the gas. I feel like I'm at more than 50%, but not sure. With throttle by wire I assume that it's harder to correlate throttle opening with how far I'm actually turning the grip.

I wish there was a way to data log it on the road when it happens.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,912 Posts
I was hoping you would offer your expertise. I assume your "tune" addresses these issues, correct? I'm at a point in my life that I prefer not to mod my bikes, but I'm not going to completely rule it out either.

At this point I'm curious as to how common this issue is. So far I'm only seeing two of us.
The stock bike is lean. Very lean.
Depending in fuel quality and riding style all the engines will knock/ping at part throttle lower rpm higher gear situations and may exhibit harse behavor on transition.

There is no knock sensor, so Honda are not concerned. When my bike was stock I just ignored the issue and adjusted my riding to get around it by keeping the revs up and used ethanol free gas.

I also want to experiment more with the different modes and in different gears. I probably need to better understand what rpm I'm at and an approximation as to how hard I'm on the gas. I feel like I'm at more than 50%, but not sure. With throttle by wire I assume that it's harder to correlate throttle opening with how far I'm actually turning the grip.

I wish there was a way to data log it on the road when it happens.
Actually that's the point. Just get on the throttle and ride for the current conditions - the same way you would drive a throttle by wire Corvette.
The engine produces a ton of power - more than can safely be used in low gear scenarios so rather than rely on Traction Control and Wheelie Control everywhere, the bike (and the Corvette) limits the amount of available torque by managing how the throttle is opened regardless of what you do with your right foot/hand.

Managing torque delivery this way is the easiest and safest way to go fast - it is also the mechanism used to comply with government demands

The United States may have thrown off the shackles of British oppression, but the jokes on us now - all the UK riders get the full power bike to enjoy, we are saddled with the nanny state crippled version.

I will keep harping on the fact you are spending a lot of time analyzing behavior of a bike that is artificially restricted for the US market.
The bike you are riding is not the one Honda intended to sell you (or the same bike the Bits and Aussies get) , it is the bike the EPA allow you to purchase ;)


Just buy a second ECU, have it tuned and plug it in. Then on those days when you feel like complying with the Feds, plug the stock ECU in and have at it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,360 Posts
I was hoping you would offer your expertise. I assume your "tune" addresses these issues, correct? I'm at a point in my life that I prefer not to mod my bikes, but I'm not going to completely rule it out either.

At this point I'm curious as to how common this issue is. So far I'm only seeing two of us. I also want to experiment more with the different modes and in different gears. I probably need to better understand what rpm I'm at and an approximation as to how hard I'm on the gas. I feel like I'm at more than 50%, but not sure. With throttle by wire I assume that it's harder to correlate throttle opening with how far I'm actually turning the grip.

I wish there was a way to data log it on the road when it happens.
There is a way to log all data on the road and analyze it after. It's called Woolich Autotune!
My suggestion would be to send your (or a second ECU) ECU to RC45 and let him do his thing. There really is no downside to an ECU flash and RC45 knows the Sc77 model better than anyone I have come across.
Woolich is great if you like messing with your bike or plan on continuing mods down the road. If you want a get it and forget it option RC45 is that guy for this model bike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter #80
There were many years when I did love analyzing and tinkering. For any old time car guys, I bought a new 1982 RX7 Mazda as my first weekend only car. I wound up putting an aftermarket turbo on it and many other mods. And if you are really into it, the turbo kit had a Weber Carb. I loved tinkering with it.

But as stated in an earlier thread, now I just want to ride a reliable bike. I do like the idea of a second ECU. How much does an ECU cost? I'm thinking that can't be cheap!
 
61 - 80 of 167 Posts
Top