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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So..while installing the akrapovic header on my 2017 1000RR SP1.
The sensor was located before the catalytic converter and no sensor after.
The akrapovic lambda/o2 sensor bung is on the other side (right side of the bike and further back. The stock header is on the left side of the bike.

Story short, the oem lambda/o2 sensor is no way long enough to reach the new location.
I've bought an extension harness and waiting for that to come in.

My question: can I leave it out?
Is there an eliminator I can purchase?
I dont want to hurt the bike.

I will be taking it to Bauce racing in the near future for a tune and to disable the lambda/o2.

Just want to ride the bike in the meantime without tripping off any lights.

Suggestions?
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'll try again to see if i can get it to reach but I'm telling you, the length of the cable/sensor appears to be physically impossible. It's a pretty short cable with no slack to spare.

Will report back my results.
Thanks
 

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Did you take your radiator out before installing the headers?
 

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So..while installing the akrapovic header on my 2017 1000RR SP1.
The sensor was located before the catalytic converter and no sensor after.
The akrapovic lambda/o2 sensor bung is on the other side (right side of the bike and further back. The stock header is on the left side of the bike.

Story short, the oem lambda/o2 sensor is no way long enough to reach the new location.
I've bought an extension harness and waiting for that to come in.

My question: can I leave it out?
Is there an eliminator I can purchase?

I dont want to hurt the bike.

I will be taking it to Bauce racing in the near future for a tune and to disable the lambda/o2.

Just want to ride the bike in the meantime without tripping off any lights.

Suggestions?
The ECU won't let you leave it out (unless it is tuned out with using Woolich Racing software) and selling O2 emulators has been a Federal crime for quite a number of years now ;)

The SC77 already runs pretty lean from the get go, dropping in the Akro without a tune will just exacerbate the issue.
 

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Hey fellas, been scanning through the forum for some info/education on the subject of o2 sensors and full exhaust systems. Haven't found the answer I've been looking for yet.

I'm about to have Akrapovic full exhaust installed on my SP1 post flash. What should be done with the o2 sensor? Should it just be installed in the Akrapovic full system? I read something in the Danos ECU flash thread that talked about someone that commutes on their bike may want to leave o2 sensors connected or in/on or enabled or something to that effect for better gas mileage. But then I see above where RC45 says, I believe, having an o2 sensor in Akrapovic full exhaust system, without a tune exacerbates an already lean condition.

I have the Danos flash and the o2 sensor was not disabled. Please advise.
 

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I posed this question to Woolich in the early days before I purchased their kit. They recommended that the stock O2 sensor is not recommended to be re-installed as it will "alter the fueling in the closed loop part of the fuel maps". I would possibly raise a question to Danos themselves as it wouldn't be the 1st time such a question has been asked.
 

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So I should not connect the o2 sensor to the exhaust? And just disconnect it from the bike and just run the exhaust straight through, (with bung hole plugged), from the engine unless I am doing some tuning?
 

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So I should not connect the o2 sensor to the exhaust? And just disconnect it from the bike and just run the exhaust straight through, (with bung hole plugged), from the engine unless I am doing some tuning?
When they flashed the ECU did they delete the stock O2 sensor? If they did then I would assume connecting the stock O2 sensor won't communicate with the ECU anyway. You could try putting a bung in the hole, leave the stock O2 sensor disconnected and start the bike. If it doesn't throw a warning on the dash then it must be deleted. If it does, you'll have to connect it in any case, but just be mindful that it will adjust the closed loop part of the fuel maps as Woolich have stated.
 

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Also when I put the ECU back in my bike for the first time post flash everything will still be stock and as such the o2 sensor will still be in and operating.

Another question: what exactly does "adjust the closed loop part of the fuel map mean and how noticeable is this adjustment?"

I'm assuming that it will somewhat cause a leaner condition momentarily hence the fuel saving. But is this leaner condition noticeable when riding or harmful to the engine?
 

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Copied from Woolich forum:

The stock narrowband O2 sensor only affects fueling at small throttle positions while in the IAP map. It does not influence fueling when in the TPS map (>11% TPS). The stock narrowband O2 sensor sends data to the ECU about the current AFR, the ECU then adjusts fueling to attempt to keep the engine at or near the switching point of the narrowband o2 sensor which is around 14.7 AFR. This is is a closed loop operation and is generally too lean for smooth operation of the engine at low RPM. so when you disable the stock narrowband O2 sensor and tune your IAP map to a richer target AFR you will get smoother fueling of the engine at low RPM.
 

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Hey fellas, been scanning through the forum for some info/education on the subject of o2 sensors and full exhaust systems. Haven't found the answer I've been looking for yet.

I'm about to have Akrapovic full exhaust installed on my SP1 post flash. What should be done with the o2 sensor? Should it just be installed in the Akrapovic full system? I read something in the Danos ECU flash thread that talked about someone that commutes on their bike may want to leave o2 sensors connected or in/on or enabled or something to that effect for better gas mileage. But then I see above where RC45 says, I believe, having an o2 sensor in Akrapovic full exhaust system, without a tune exacerbates an already lean condition.

I have the Danos flash and the o2 sensor was not disabled. Please advise.
My comment was that simply running a full exhaust without a tune will have the bike running leaner, not because of the presence of the O2 sensor, but rather because of the actual free flowing after market exhaust itself.


I posed this question to Woolich in the early days before I purchased their kit. They recommended that the stock O2 sensor is not recommended to be re-installed as it will "alter the fueling in the closed loop part of the fuel maps". I would possibly raise a question to Danos themselves as it wouldn't be the 1st time such a question has been asked.
Key is that until 3 weeks ago, disabling the O2 sensor on the SC77 fucked up Torque Management but they didn't know it - when push came to shove in December 2019 it was determined that running the O2 sensor plugged in and enabled had very little influence on a decently tuned bike in the grand scheme of things as Woolich points out - the stock narrow band O2 sensor only influences closed loop operations in IAP zone.

And the influence is still only in the context of what the current IAP table/tables are allowing. If a bike runs rich, then the ECU will try lean it a little - if the bike runs lean then the ECU will try enrichen it a little.

The reason Danos (quite correctly) suggested leaving the O2 sensor attached is so that the bike would have functioning Torque Management (remember, Woolich flash with disabled O2 sensor caused Torque Management to be disabled) - but now that the software has been patched and not breaking the Torque Management, the O2 can be deleted. But this would require the ECU be sent back to Danos again.

But then again, leaving the O2 sensor in place is not going to affect much other than the bike will try run a bit leaner in part throttle IAP conditions - remember he bike will be trying to get the bike to be stoich at 14.7 while the IPA tables will probably be influencing the bike to be closer to 13.5
 

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The reason Danos (quite correctly) suggested leaving the O2 sensor attached is so that the bike would have functioning Torque Management (remember, Woolich flash with disabled O2 sensor caused Torque Management to be disabled)
Are you saying that Danos knew about the torque management issue before Woolich by disabling the O2 sensor?
 

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I guess this is the down side of plug and play ECU flashes. You don't know exactly what your fuel, and I guess whatever other, maps look like.

Danos asked me what mods I had planned for the bike. I let him know. I'm guessing that when I told him I was going to run a full exhaust system and do a pair valve mod he knew that some afr issues had to be considered.

I'm also assuming that both the US and Euro stock SC77 ECUs attempt to maintain stoichiometric combustion. But once flashed somebody should know that an after market full exhaust would require a little richer mixture.

So I guess what I'm getting at is can or have the fuel/relevant maps been tailored/created to consider this fight between o2 sensor and ECU regarding the fuel mixture. Or is the conclusion just to simply disable o2 sensor?

I know you, RC45, mention that its not that serious if you've got a full exhaust and a good tune, but I don't know what my maps look like or how to even determine whether I have a good tune. I'm guessing they've tuned some 2017 SPs with Akrapovic full exhaust and enabled o2 sensor to see how to create a map that is workable and not unhealthy for the engine.

I put this question to Woolich via work ticket and they said it's pretty much a matter of personal preference but o2 sensor enabled would be a bit "more snatchier" than disabled o2 sensor.

Educate me fellas please!
 

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Well I guess it is similar to say what Dynojet, Rapidbike etc. will provide anyway in a sense. I had a RSV4R previously and installed the race ECU and never worried what the AFR was doing or not doing. I have a CB1000R as well and have a Rapidbike attached to it, I simply downloaded the full Akrapovic map and installed it. I have no idea what the AFR is doing real time but I know that the map is a little richer to account for the full system. There isn't too much to worry about mate IMO. However, like you stated, the benefit of a Woolich system is to tune your bike to what you want, every run on the CBR1000RR I seem to look back on the data from the log box just to analyze the results, mainly AFR. I haven't adjusted the fuel maps for about 6 rides now as I am happy where the AFR is and the bike feels good, I could basically remove it now and leave the O2 sensor disconnected and still be confident. I still like to go back through the data though ;)
 

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Are you saying that Danos knew about the torque management issue before Woolich by disabling the O2 sensor?
No, either Woolich told them or one of their customers told them or they found out via this forum as I am the one that definitively isolated this issue and informed Woolich or Danos is choosing to sometimes leave the O2 enabled as a function of their tune or they did so in response to instructions that this is was the only way to not inadvertently disable Torque Management.

I
 

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No, either Woolich told them or one of their customers told them or they found out via this forum as I am the one that definitively isolated this issue and informed Woolich - so either Danos is choosing to leave the O2 enabled as a rule or they did so in response to instructions that this is was the only way to not inadvertently disable Torque Management.
You did suspect rightly mate, smart little cookie you are (y)
 
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