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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Bought a 2005 CBR1000RR (1,350 miles) less than a month ago. Cleaned it, replaced all fluids and going to replace parts to factory specs. Drove it around and absolutely loved it. Even with this 15 year old technology, it still felt like a rocket with limitless torque. But, I'm now craving for all the electronics in the newer models. The leftover new 2018's are priced attractively. Is it worth it?
 

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Bought a 2005 CBR1000RR (1,350 miles) less than a month ago. Cleaned it, replaced all fluids and going to replace parts to factory specs. Drove it around and absolutely loved it. But, I'm now craving for all the electronics in the newer models. The leftover new 2018's are priced attractively. Is it worth it?
Yes.
 

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We're a tad biased, but yes, they're seriously underrated bikes. Paradoxically, the SP is probably the better all purpose bike, if I could swing a second I'd get a base model for a track bike build.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I thought SP is even more so for track than street?
 

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I thought SP is even more so for track than street?
Sort of - yes and no.

Its a Honda and homologation thing mixed in with marketing hype.

The SP (and the SP2) has Ohlins and Brembo that for certain regions stock class racing bikes have to run the wheels, brake calipers and rotors of the stock bike as well as the stock fork outers.

But the intent for pure racing purposes is to ditch the electronic part of the Ohlins and use the SBK Cartridge Kit to up the forks to SuperBike spec and replace the shock - this is a $4500 upgrade cost to actually make the SP/SP2 suspension ready for SuperStock racing.

So in that respect the cheaper base model is a better starting point if you are going spend money on upgrade parts anyway.

But on the street the "race ready" SP and SP2 appear cooler I suppose. :unsure:
 

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Sort of. With the ECS you can change between track/fast road/comfort settings and can tweak very easily, within certain parameters, so you can use comfort mode to get down the highway to go fast time, switch it up with a button to stiffen things up and bump the power, then turn it all back down after, it's actually a very comfortable bike for distances that way.

Like RC said, if you're building a proper track bike, you junk all of it anyway, so a base is the way to go.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I see ... very educational.

I'm looking for a 2018 street CBR and I don't want to spend the $$$ for a SP class CBR --- it's over what I want to spend. Besides, owing to the much smaller production volume for SP's, I don't see any leftovers for 2018. If there are any, they are in the used market.

So, I'll stick with base.
I'm assuming that I can upgrade to Ohlin options later if I want to or is the Ohlin tied to the ECU programming?
 

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I see ... very educational.

I'm looking for a 2018 street CBR and I don't want to spend the $$$ for a SP class CBR --- it's over what I want to spend. Besides, owing to the much smaller production volume for SP's, I don't see any leftovers for 2018. If there are any, they are in the used market.

So, I'll stick with base.
I'm assuming that I can upgrade to Ohlin options later if I want to or is the Ohlin tied to the ECU programming?
Upgrade to ohlins is simple.
Buy ohlins ECS, buy SP wiring harness and SCU, I flash you ECU to SP spec and your done.

The trick will be finding the Ohlins ECS and SP harness at a reasonable price, but it can be done.
But based on today's street prices it would be cheaper to buy a used SP

But in 3 or 4 years it may be cheaper to buy the used Ohlins ECS

But going with the base/ABS and a decent ECU flash will give a kick ass bike.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I was just looking at the Torque/Power curves of the 2018, did they tune the Base towards high RPM? Is it still a torquey bike for lower RPMs or is it now like the Yamaha R6 (useless for the street)?
My 2005 has a really bulgy torque curve in the front end for street.
 

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I was just looking at the Torque/Power curves of the 2018, did they tune the Base towards high RPM? Is it still a torquey bike for lower RPMs or is it now like the Yamaha R6 (useless for the street)?
My 2005 has a really bulgy torque curve in the front end for street.
Which market curves?
If you see a Honda graph it is of the de-restricted Euro bike and the stock North American bike behaves nothing like the power curve suggests it should.

The base, ABS and SP all use exactly the same engine and tune. The US/Canada tune is orientated towards passing emissions requirements (sound and polluting gases)

The reality is that even if the 2005 was torquier at low rpm compared to the 2017/18/19 you will struggle to use it all.

Where as with the SC77 the power delivery is shaped and managed by the ETV table profile. And thats how I have a P1 that seriously challenges good riders, P2 that is really strong all the way down to a P5 rain mode that allows you safely ride in very wet conditions.

That's the beauty and value of the electronic bikes.
 

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Now wait a minute......I love my 05......are we splitting hairs on performance for the street????
If you are going for all out track performance, do all of the above...if that's really what you are after.....but get your big wallet out!!!
259279
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Which market curves?
[...]
This one

Now wait a minute......I love my 05......are we splitting hairs on performance for the street????
If you are going for all out track performance, do all of the above...if that's really what you are after.....but get your big wallet out!!!
View attachment 259279
No, I'm just exploring the useable torque on the street between the two (2005 vs 2018).
When I call on the torque, I want it to be there. I'm not into the late arriving torque at 13,000 RPM. Not going to the track.

You have seen my video of the tire breakign loose and the front wheel lifting at 5500rpm right?
No, what do you mean?
You are scaring me. :ROFLMAO:

Good to know. Thanks!

Do the brakes on the Base 2018 CBR come with a dust-cover?
 

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Vendor - The SC77 Specialist
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No, I'm just exploring the useable torque on the street between the two (2005 vs 2018).
When I call on the torque, I want it to be there. I'm not into the late arriving torque at 13,000 RPM. Not going to the track.
You have seen my video of the tire breakign loose and the front wheel lifting at 5500rpm right?

No, what do you mean?
You are scaring me. :ROFLMAO:
Here you go - P1 for the big kids :unsure: :ROFLMAO:


OK ... I signed on the dotted line as a smiling owner and rode it back from a neighboring state.

Initial impressions of 2018 CBR1000RR SP ... coming from my experiences with my 2005 CBR1000RR.
The bike was a dry bike when I bought it with zero miles. Service dept had to do initial prep and fill up all the fluids and test drive and check it.

Configuration : Set it on Mode2 for the journey back just to get acquainted.
Tires: I'm impressed by the Diablo Supercorsa tires, they feel better than the Dunlop Q3+.
QS: The Quickshifter is very nicely integrated into the system, very smooth, indeed; compared to the DynoJet QS and PC5 on my 2005.
Flickability: I'm sure why the SP is more flickable than my 2005 Base cannot be just the drop in 20+ lbs in weight, can it? Perhaps, it's the Ohlins suspensions. I also suspect that the location of components (i.e. their weights) matters and that yielded a more maneuverable bike. In terms of flickability, it felt like a CBR600RR with a hidden 998cc powerhouse.
Vibrations: Vibrations on the handle-bars and pegs were quite high (in the first 100 miles) at freeway speeds. It may be the break-in period. When I got off the bike to get gas, there was a tingling sensation on my palms and feet. However, when I arrived home (after the 2nd hundred miles or so), there was no such sensations. I'll keep this in view and report with updates along the way.
TBW: Throttle-by-wire felt very linear in the way it communicated my inputs to the throttle. If there's a few milliseconds delay, it wasn't detectable by me or any other human. I picked up this kind of delay from my BMW M235xi so I know how it felt.
Throttle feedback: More linear and not as raw as my 2005 CBR100RR but I was only using Mode2 (things may change if I use Mode1 or tweak with other parameters). The predictability due to the linear acceleration (in Mode2) conjures up confidence and greatly improves bike's trustworthiness when I call on it for torque. In short, the linearity of the acceleration reminded me of my test drive on a Tesla with the Ludicrous Mode turned ON.
EB (Engine Braking): I love this when the traffic slows down in the freeway. Very thoughtful & usable feature.
Clutch : back to cable clutch? What's wrong with the hydraulic clutch?
Brakes: Its initial bite is not quite there but once it engages, it is normal. Perhaps, the brakes are not broken-in yet.
Exhaust Note: Music to my ears and I will never swap it out to the coarse and harsh sounds of aftermarket ones. Honda should record it and put it on their website, just like BMW did for all their bikes. At idle, it has the same Bavarian reverberating low frequency smoothness, which BMWs are famous for. Believe it or not, BMW have acoustic engineers to tune it so they sound nice, not just perform well. Apparently, Honda is aware of a quality exhaust note:
The titanium irregular cross-section muffler is 6.17 lbs (2.8kg) lighter and minimizes the center of gravity change; it also creates an unmistakable sound tone from the exhaust on an open throttle. The exhaust supplier to the Honda Repsol MotoGP team was asked to develop the prototype and produced an exquisite design with the 4-2-1 double-skinned downpipes incorporating the exhaust valve within the first main pipe.
Initial electronic (Dashboard) startup sound: It quite loud. The mid-frequency humming (after the ECU does it POST tests but before I crank the engine) is noticeably loud.
Signal Light Placement: I'm eternally grateful for where Honda has placed these, like modern cars. Perfect choice.
Verdict: Did Honda's claim for better Total Control work? I'd say a definite Yes. Because the bike's power, torque, weight, sway behavior, even ground feedbacks, behavior negotiating a curve at speed, all seemed more polished than my 2005 CBR1000RR.

Thanks, folks, for urging me to make this decision. It is a good product, I now agree with you.

Haha which equates to what? 3/4 of a pound?
I'll stick with my old heavy led acid battery and just take a dump before I go ride to equal things out
Apparently, it is more than 3/4 pound.

A 2.2 lb. Lithium-Ion battery saves weight (a lead-acid unit of similar output would
weigh 4.4 lbs.) and provides reliable and consistent electrical charge.
If the motorcycle is totally silent when powered on (turning the key does more than just turn on the dash board - it is turning on the entire bike) then something is wrong with it.

You will get total silence when the ECU is unplugged or when the battery is too discharged to cycle the fuel pump, exhaust valve servo, suspension solenoids and the ABS pump.
If your fuel level is very low and the bike is on its side stand you can have the fuel pump make odd dry siphon noises.
If you hold the throttle open while the bike is powered on but not running the throttle body motor will create an odd whining sound.

But a totally silent motorcycle on power up is not correct. There will be some sort of noise emitted by a number of components.

BTW, the exhaust servo, ABS pump, IMU and fuel pump all occupy a small enough area that any, some or all of them can be thought to be producing the sound being heard.
Sorry, I meant that it was totally silent after all the initial power-up tests and initializations (which made noises, of course).

[...]
BTW, the exhaust servo, ABS pump, IMU, EVAP solenoid and fuel pump all occupy a small enough area that any, some or all of them can be thought to be producing the sound being heard.
Good point.

Installed this bar-ends that weighs about twice the OEM.
The vibrations dropped to 10-15% of the original levels --- more manageable & pleasurable now.

I cannot overemphasize that the smallish & light feeling of the SC77 made it such a pleasure to ride. Small & fast is beautiful, indeed. The more I ride on it, the more attached I am to it.

UPDATE: MPG = ~42 miles per gallon
Now that I have more data points, I'm getting around 42 MPG for this bike, which came up to be around $0.07 per mile.
Based on Fuelly's average, it turned out to be similar to the 2015 Toyota Prius. :ROFLMAO: Not bad for a bike that can match the Tesla's Ludicrous Mode.
 

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I thought SP is even more so for track than street?
A bike released as a street legal (i.e. not track only) is not going to have the TOTL racing components because most of the time these components are not compatible with street use. For instance, the Ohlins superbike gas charged forks require service every 10 hours of use, true Brembo Racing mono-blocks need very frequent rebuilds because there's no dust seals, etc.

Another consideration is that bike specific Ohlins electronic suspension has very poor resale value (low demand vs. 30mm/25mm kits), so if you do end up "upgrading" again you won't get much out of them.
 

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A bike released as a street legal (i.e. not track only) is not going to have the TOTL racing components because most of the time these components are not compatible with street use. For instance, the Ohlins superbike gas charged forks require service every 10 hours of use, true Brembo Racing mono-blocks need very frequent rebuilds because there's no dust seals, etc.

Another consideration is that bike specific Ohlins electronic suspension has very poor resale value (low demand vs. 30mm/25mm kits), so if you do end up "upgrading" again you won't get much out of them.
Luckily the Ohlins ECS that comes on the SC77 has a SuperBike spec FKR100 upgrade cartidge. That is the fork used for SuperStock racing the SP/SP2.

So the upgrade path is a natural one if done correctly. Same with the Brembo calipers. FIM SuperStock rules require the actual stock caliper be used - they just upgrade to Ti pistons and braided lines and go race.
 

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Do the brakes on the Base 2018 CBR come with a dust-cover?
The stock Tokico calipers on the base model come with a dust seal. The Brembo M4 caliper on the SP/SP2 model also has a dust seal.
 
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The stock Tokico calipers on the base model come with a dust seal. The Brembo M4 caliper on the SP/SP2 model also has a dust seal.
The M4 calipers were also used on SuperStock legal race bikes by rule requirement.

Here is a 2018 IOM TT SuperStock race bike.
These bikes are great platforms.
 

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The M4 in my opinion is also the best Brembo caliper for street use. It's anodized finish does not corrode under any circumstances and it's one of the few Brembo calipers that you can buy a complete 4x34mm rebuild kit with brand new pistons and seals for $80 per caliper. I do find it very odd that Honda opted for the same old Nissin master cylinder that's on all their other 600/1000rr bikes for the SP/SP2 since a master cylinder upgrade is a much more significant difference in feel vs. caliper upgrade.
 
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The M4 in my opinion is also the best Brembo caliper for street use. It's anodized finish does not corrode under any circumstances and it's one of the few Brembo calipers that you can buy a complete 4x34mm rebuild kit with brand new pistons and seals for $80 per caliper. I do find it very odd that Honda opted for the same old Nissin master cylinder that's on all their other 600/1000rr bikes for the SP/SP2 since a master cylinder upgrade is a much more significant difference in feel vs. caliper upgrade.
Simple. At the time of homologation of the SC77, the front master cylinder was open for replacement under FIM SuperStock class rules.

For the 2020 season FIM SuperStock rules require using the OEM master, so the SC82 SP now comes with a race use worthy front master cylinder.
 

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This is a crazy thread....I thought art was just deciding between a 2005 and a 2018.
But I do like the paint scheme on the Super Stock race bike....:cool:
 
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