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Discussion Starter #1
Discovered a new issue yesterday. I think I might have around 85 miles on the bike, but it sounds pretty horrible under load at 3-4000 rpm. It makes a horrible rattle/clattering noise. I’ve looked it up, and it looks like other people are experiencing it too, but couldn’t find a ton of information on it, particularly on here. Anyone else's bike sound like that, or is it only US mapping causing a lean condition?

https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/bikes/honda/2017-honda-fireblade-test-long-term-review/2017-honda-fireblade-fuelling-problems-fixed-solved

Around the 2:30 mark you can hear it in the video (not near as bad as what I’m experiencing, but same sound)

https://cbrforum.com/forum/cbr-1000rr-13/2017-cbr-1000rr-pinging-158009/
 

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Again, any dyno run of a 2017+ CBR1000RR without the front wheel speed sensor disabled via ECU flash is a pointless exercise - why do these fuggen magazines continue doing this shit?

If the front wheel speed sensor is not software disabled any data gathered from the dynorun is crap, including any rattles or pings or blips or bops.

All I could hear was the O2 wand rattling in the end can.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Again, any dyno run of a 2017+ CBR1000RR without the front wheel speed sensor disabled via ECU flash is a pointless exercise - why do these fuggen magazines continue doing this shit?

If the front wheel speed sensor is not software disabled any data gathered from the dynorun is crap, including any rattles or pings or blips or bops.

All I could hear was the O2 wand rattling in the end can.
I’m not on a dyno, and the sound is much worse and all sensors should be fully functional. If it’s not on your bike, consider yourself lucky. I’m trying to figure out if it’s a prevalent problem, if there’s a fix, etc. The video was there to reference the sound I’m experiencing at around the 2:33-2:34 mark. What I describe as a rattle, might be what you call clatter, etc., so a video with the actual sound doesn’t hurt. I put an old GoPro on a helmet and rode around a bit a minute ago. Waiting for that video to upload to see if it captured the sound. If so, I’ll upload it here.
 

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I understand your bike was not on the dyno, but what I am sayign is that any reference to 2-17+ CBR behavior on a dyno is moot if the ECU has not been flashed to disable the front wheel speed sensor as the ECU will at certain points pull timing and or shut the motor down. That is why I simply ignore all incorrectly conducted dyno runs.

As for your bike, how good is the fuel you buy? Knock is a by product of fuel quality and there is no point for a manufacturer to sell a vehicle in the US that is not designed to operate with the fuel as sold.

Now you may not get ultimate performance out of the vehicle with over the counter fuels and stock tuning, but you are not going to have self destructive knock/ping without significant liability on the manufacturer.

The only way to determine if a vehicle is actually lean under load, is to conduct AFR logging - anything else is just a guess.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Looks like we’re both in Houston too, you’re free to ride it to hear it in person. I thought maybe the dealer put some cheap 87 octane gas in it, so I filled it back up with Shell 93. Problem is still there.
Video of my bike.
 

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I’m not an expert at anything, it sounds either like ping or a short shift. My opinion only, again not an expert on anything.
 

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You drove 6 hours out of Houston to pick up a new 2017? I think 3 or for Houston Honda dealers have left over 17 and 18s on the floor. Hopefully one of the local Honda dealers is working with you to resolve the other issues.

The correct way to determine lean position will be to log the AFR of a couple rides to tell for sure - other wise we are just guessing.

I am looking through the service manual and the parts list and I am not seeign a knock sensor for the 2017+ bikes... am I missing something here??? I hope I can just not find the part number.

If we don't have a knock sensor, then how is Honda hoping to prevent the bikes from self destructing?
 

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OP, the rattle might also be cam chain tensioner. Not sure if this was already mentioned


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #9
You drove 6 hours out of Houston to pick up a new 2017? I think 3 or for Houston Honda dealers have left over 17 and 18s on the floor. Hopefully one of the local Honda dealers is working with you to resolve the other issues.

The correct way to determine lean position will be to log the AFR of a couple rides to tell for sure - other wise we are just guessing.

I am looking through the service manual and the parts list and I am not seeign a knock sensor for the 2017+ bikes... am I missing something here??? I hope I can just not find the part number.

If we don't have a knock sensor, then how is Honda hoping to prevent the bikes from self destructing?
It took a solid 8hrs to pick the bike up, it was a little over 1000 miles round trip. I tried buying from several local dealers (Wild West, Team Mancuso, Stubbs, Woods Fun Center in Austin) Mind you it was a couple weeks ago, and it looks like they have more inventory now. However, no local dealer would match the price or come within shooting distance of it. I’ve owned more than my fair share of bikes, most purchased new and local but a few have come from out of state. I’ve bought an Aprilia Tuono V4 from Maryland, a BMW GSA from Chicago, and my last CBR from Oklahoma. The Tuono came delivered from UPS. I thought that was pretty good.

I emailed the purchasing dealer about the cracked tail fairing, called Honda Powersports North America, and took the bike to a local Honda dealership here. The rep with Honda was worthless to be honest. He said there was nothing he could do, and all claims have to originate at the dealer level. The purchasing dealer said the GM was of course not there, and they would need to talk to the regional rep. The local dealer said he would call me later that day with an update, but that never happened.

The engine noise didn’t start until yesterday evening, got progressively worse, and made me think it’s only a matter of time before it grenades itself. Could be wrong, but it doesn’t sound good. If you have a good dealer/ service guy that you use please let me know here or through pm and I will take it to them and let them go through the bike.
 

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I have the same noise if I lug the engine. In your second video if I accelerated in second from that turn I get that noise. If I keep the RPMs up I never have it.
 

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So for me not having a street orientated bike at all, detonation/bad fuel has never been a concern of mine.

I have confirmed that the 2017+ 1000cc bikes (CBR and CB) do NOT have knock sensors.

Honda it seems has gone with conservative ignition tables, so they (Honda) are apparently not concerned about detonation on the street bikes at all.

The Honda Corporate line is simple - buy quality high octane gas that has a very low to zero ethanol content.

There is literally nothing that any dealer can do other than make sure the throttle bodies are performing correctly, make sure the secondary injectors are operating correctly and that there are no air leaks/issues in the upstream intake system.

The solution may be a ECU flash, but of course then you negate any warranty claims you may have had about fueling in the future.

OP, has your bike had the fuel cap recall done? Who knows what affect a faulty fuel cap could have on fuel system performance.
 

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I have a 2017 and so do a few others i ride with, they ALL do it down low in the RPM if you throttle hard in the wrong gear....

Can be heard about 3.5mins in


Lots of comments on the video with the same experience.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I have the same noise if I lug the engine. In your second video if I accelerated in second from that turn I get that noise. If I keep the RPMs up I never have it.
Thanks for confirming I’m not in the boat alone. I’ve tried it in every gear, keeping it at a constant 3000 rpm then going to wide open throttle it does it every time. Obviously gets worse as the bike temp climbs too. Probably doesn't help that it’s 90 degrees outside either. But no, if you keep the revs at 5k or above I haven’t experienced it.
So for me not having a street orientated bike at all, detonation/bad fuel has never been a concern of mine.

I have confirmed that the 2017+ 1000cc bikes (CBR and CB) do NOT have knock sensors.

Honda it seems has gone with conservative ignition tables, so they (Honda) are apparently not concerned about detonation on the street bikes at all.

The Honda Corporate line is simple - buy quality high octane gas that has a very low to zero ethanol content.

There is literally nothing that any dealer can do other than make sure the throttle bodies are performing correctly, make sure the secondary injectors are operating correctly and that there are no air leaks/issues in the upstream intake system.

The solution may be a ECU flash, but of course then you negate any warranty claims you may have had about fueling in the future.

OP, has your bike had the fuel cap recall done? Who knows what affect a faulty fuel cap could have on fuel system performance.
Nice to know about the lack of knock sensors... No open recalls. Pure gas is a rarity today at a corner store pump, and ethanol raises octane which seems like it shouldn’t have a negative impact on detonation. I suspect, but could be wrong that some Euro 4 emission test is conducted at that specific rpm which would require the lean mixture. Speculation... As for an ECU flash etc, like you said it’s a double edged sword. However, if they won’t warranty a $200 broken rear tail fairing I have my doubts about an engine. Either way, it leaves me a little concerned about the longevity and impact that it will have.
 

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Its not gas related because here in Australia i use 98 fuel and it still does it.
98 RON is very much equivalent to 93 pump gas here.

It would appear then that it may be the fuel combined with the lack of a knock sensor to trigger ignition retarding when riding the bikes in a certain manner.

Then again any claims of knock without accompanying AFR logs to confirm the over all state of the tune are at best just guesses.

Rattles, pings, and clatters might be cam chain tensioner sounds, exhaust resonance or anyy number of other noises.
 

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Honestly, I'd be surprised if every Euro 4 bike doesn't do it to a degree, hell, my wife's KTM does the same thing. I know my manual transmission cars sure don't like me flooring them at low RPM's, either. Better question is why a bike with a ride by wire throttle is opening enough to allow it, or why people insist on lugging everything in the first place!
 

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I wouldn't worry about it. I have a 18 GS that pings quite a bit even w premium at low rpm/too high gear position. 3k seems like pretty low rpm for a full throttle roll on in anything other than first gear esp w stock gearing. It's probably fine, just ride it and have fun. On the off chance something is wrong, you have a year before the warranty is up:)
 

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That's fair.

Am i right in saying the Aus tune is same as the EU tune which is different than the US tune?
Yes, the RR, SP and SP2 ECUs share table data where applicable are common to Europe and Australia.

And this data is different to the US/Canadian RR, SP and SP2 ECUs.

Yet all markets display this low RPM detonation.

I suppose we are ok as long as this is not extreme high RPM full throttle detonation.
 
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