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2005 CBR1000RR Turbo, 2002 CBR 954RR
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Who on here has some dyno numbers from high lift cams, overbore, or high compression pistons? Not necessarily together. I know the suzuki guys gain about 20hp with 80cc overbore alone. I have a potential build coming up and the guy wants to know how much power to expect from these mods. He wants the most he can get without power adders which is where all my experience is. I was recommending 1053cc overbore with 13.5 : 1 high compression pistons and .376/.363 high lift cams and heavier springs. If anyone has results from any of these mods let me know.
 

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A1 SuperMod!
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1091cc with 13.5 compression and HRC JSB camshafts indexed to HRC manual specs made 178hp 87ft-lb. Major gain was the massive midrange with 150hp+ from above 8k.

I did not optimize ignition tune and only used auto-tune at 13 AFR at WOT.
 

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Bigger gets you more power everywhere, same with more compression but you can only go so far before you get into detonation unless you run race gas. Cams for more power pushes the power curve up, good for racing, bad for street use. You didn't say what you are doing with the bike.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the info guys! This bike would be for straight line racing and possibly the drag strip. I don't think he'd care much about low end. He just wants to keep up with the new bikes.

I just asked Danos Performance and he still offers a superbike kit for this model. He claimed 16-18 hp from the kit and another 6-7 with high compression pistons. I didn't get a number for the overbore.

The cost estimate stacks up to $3k. I could turbo or supercharge it for that much.
 

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turbo everything!...
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Don't expect to make over 175whp SAE on a dyno that shows ~145-150 for a typical bolt-on 04-07. Tell the customer that he will not make power like the newer bikes even with a built engine. I don't even see a stroker engine making 200whp on pump/E85 or even MR12. I've made 172 with HRC pistons 14:1, Daniel crower regrind cams, and a ported head. 2mm over bore doesn't really make more power, but produces more torque.I have a 2mm over ore 13.5:1 with ported head and stock cams...it makes 162hp SAE on pummp gas.... it's faster than the dyno numbers would lead you to believe though. I'm building a stock pistons and cams engine now for someone...I'm sure it'll make 160hp, so don't really even need all of the expensive parts, I would grab a set o regrind cams or HRC base racers off ebay, and build the engine...that combo should do 165-170... I haven't built that combo yet, so that's my educated guess....all numbers quoted are with 145-149hp SAE baselines. This isn't gospel, just my opinion/experience.
 

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turbo everything!...
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This is a comparison between a stock piston/ported head/hrc intake cam setup versus a hrc piston/regrind cams/ported head setup...both setups are tuned but not exactly apples to apples comparison, because the HRC piston'd (170hp) bike was stretched and had arguably better intake setup (HRC style intake and HRC race filters ) versus a modified stock intake with bmc air filters.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Excellent info! So far this is looking like I expected. I was figuring 180hp was pushing it.

This is a comparison between a stock piston/ported head/hrc intake cam setup versus a hrc piston/regrind cams/ported head setup...both setups are tuned but not exactly apples to apples comparison, because the HRC piston'd (170hp) bike was stretched and had arguably better intake setup (HRC style intake and HRC race filters ) versus a modified stock intake with bmc air filters.
The blue torque curve is little higher on the low end. Is there much of a difference in cam profile? How did the +2mm piston torque curve look compared to these? I'd be curious to see what the 2mm 13.5:1 pistons plus one of those cams would do.
 

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One aspect I wanted to try is ceramic engine bearings. Woodcraft offers a set. 5% more power for $500? Not a bad deal for the price if it were true.
I've heard from a few different engine builders that ceramic bearings don't do well when under load like being used in an engine. Where they shine is when you use them in your wheel hubs.
World Wide Bearings are supposed to have the best quality sourced from Japan and USA
 

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turbo everything!...
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Excellent info! So far this is looking like I expected. I was figuring 180hp was pushing it.


The blue torque curve is little higher on the low end. Is there much of a difference in cam profile? How did the +2mm piston torque curve look compared to these? I'd be curious to see what the 2mm 13.5:1 pistons plus one of those cams would do.
I had the two engines degreed differently, that's the majority of the difference in the curves... I would imagine the 2mm engine with a set of regrinds will make 170-ish for a basic engine build, and closer to 180 with machining and bbuilding the engine tight. I built my 2mm engine basic (.7mm headgasket, no machining, stock cams), so it makes 162hp&80lb,ft...I seen 6hp with the Crower regrinds on my stock bore, high compression engine...it made 165 before I put the cams in, then 172 after.

I could see an engine with bigger cams, 14.5:1+ pistons, lighter rods (carrilos/falicon), and the crank balanced/knife edged/lightened , ported head, crankcase ventilation mod, and machining make 180hp . I've played with the different combos, but not all in the same engine....LOL. I'll get you some more dyno pulls of different combos.
 

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turbo everything!...
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I've heard from a few different engine builders that ceramic bearings don't do well when under load like being used in an engine. Where they shine is when you use them in your wheel hubs.
World Wide Bearings are supposed to have the best quality sourced from Japan and USA
I've heard similar...I have heard it's worth doing the ceramic transmission bearings and micro polishing.
 

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turbo everything!...
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Excellent info! So far this is looking like I expected. I was figuring 180hp was pushing it.


The blue torque curve is little higher on the low end. Is there much of a difference in cam profile? How did the +2mm piston torque curve look compared to these? I'd be curious to see what the 2mm 13.5:1 pistons plus one of those cams would do.
This is a comparison between a stock engine with only the crankcase breather mod (red line), my 2mm(13.5:1) engine with ported head and stock cams degreed (blue line), and a stock bore high compression(13.5) with regrind cams and ported head
Rectangle Slope Font Plot Parallel
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I find the 2mm curves interesting. Its as if the power advantage of the increased piston size diminishes with rpm down to the stock bore power. This is probably indicative of the maximum flow potential in the valve/port design. Or perhaps the greater breath causes a larger pressure drop in the airbox. It appears it would break 175hp if you can find a way to feed it. Would using a 04-05 head with its bigger ports help? In any case the 2mm curve looks more fun than stock on the low end.

This is good info guys. This should give the owner a more realistic idea of what to expect.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Last one...LOL...comparison between my 14.5 built engine, my bone stock turbocharged engine on 6psi and pump gas(brown line), and 10psi on E85 (green line)... tell the customer if he wants to run with ALL of the newer bikes, go turbo on E85...gotta do headstuds though.
That is pretty good power. I think I was making about 10hp less at those boost numbers on C16 with my 05. The curve looks like a big turbo. What size turbo is that?
 

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turbo everything!...
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I find the 2mm curves interesting. Its as if the power advantage of the increased piston size diminishes with rpm down to the stock bore power. This is probably indicative of the maximum flow potential in the valve/port design. Or perhaps the greater breath causes a larger pressure drop in the airbox. It appears it would break 175hp if you can find a way to feed it. Would using a 04-05 head with its bigger ports help? In any case the 2mm curve looks more fun than stock on the low end.

This is good info guys. This should give the owner a more realistic idea of what to expect.
The 2mm engine needs a set of aftermarket cams...the stock bore 14:1 engine had crower regrinds... the difference is in the degree setting of the cams in each engine... I'm sure the 2mm engine will make 175 with a set of cams...I'm searching for something bigger than the HRC base racers and the ones on webcams site...I want 250+ degrees of duration at 0.040 lift, and something in the neighborhood of .380" lift. My 2mm has stock 06 cams...I've seen an 08+ cbr with 2mm pistons and web regrinds make 175 on pump gas.
 

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turbo everything!...
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That is pretty good power. I think I was making about 10hp less at those boost numbers on C16 with my 05. The curve looks like a big turbo. What size turbo is that?
The turbo is actually a subaru vf48 with a billet compressor wheel.... not big at all...T28 sized turbo. I think the small turbos will keep pace with the larger turbos until you start getting into the 1bar+ area....but that's just my guess.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Yeah thats a good size for 300hp. About the same as my vf-22. I got to 365hp with 22psi and cracked rings just before i realized i blew the motor. Ive got low compression pistons and intercooled plenum now. If it doesnt make over 400 ill switch to a g25-550
 
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