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Discussion Starter #41
I'm even more curious than ever, @RC45; are you a registered business in the State of Texas or any State in the US?
 

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I'm even more curious than ever, @RC45; are you a registered business in the State of Texas or any State in the US?
To be honest I am not sure if this is a threat or a question?
And why it would make a difference.
 

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Discussion Starter #43 (Edited)
To be honest I am not sure if this is a threat or a question?
One thing to highlight here: I'm not purchasing a mirror replacement or a tank protection sticker or a side reflector or a key-tag; but, I'm purchasing a reconfigured firmware for the main ECU of my motorcycle. As such, I'm just a simple consumer, doing my due diligence, checking out a business before I do biz with it.

So, no threat intended and I'm not working for any Govn't agencies. No harm taken either, I hope; still consider you a friend in 1000rr.net ... so lighten up
 

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One thing to highlight here: I'm not purchasing a mirror replacement or a tank protection sticker or a side reflector or a key-tag; but, I'm purchasing a reconfigured firmware for the main ECU of my motorcycle. As such, I'm just a simple consumer, doing my due diligence, checking out a business before I do biz with it.

So, no threat intended and I'm not working for any Govn't agencies. No harm taken either, I hope; still consider you a friend in 1000rr.net ... so lighten up
Since this is in the open - I'll respond to the edit, what exactly are you checking out though?

My ECU editing bona fides or my registration with the state? The 2 have no relation to each other.

To put you at ease, or make you more uncomfortable (either works for me) - I am a sole proprietor that is now eking out a living doing something I enjoy after a 25 year burn-out career, with the last 10 years devoted to keeping someone else's company running with an actual 100% up-time and literally eating and sleeping that task, only to be booted aside when a graduate of the CEOs alma mater showed up.

They say timing in life is everything, so January 2020 was both a good and bad time to officially strike out on my own. Can you say covid shutdown? Sort of makes taking your life savings to lay the ground work for a new business during 2019 look like a dumb move in retrospect :ROFLMAO::D

Oh yeah, you didn't ask for my life story, you wanted to see my state business registration papers - I don't have any, don't need it in Texas. A county registration is good enough in The Lone Star State.
Technically I am still an IT consulting DBA (y)

Now, you either want the best SC77 ECU or you don't. :devilish::coffee:
 

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If you decide to go with a set of cut frame sliders...I installed a set of Woodcrafts that I decided I don’t want anymore. I’ll trade fairings and sliders for your fairings. Bike is 2018 with ~800 miles, no drops or anything.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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If you decide to go with a set of cut frame sliders...I installed a set of Woodcrafts that I decided I don’t want anymore. I’ll trade fairings and sliders for your fairings. Bike is 2018 with ~800 miles, no drops or anything.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Are the cuts only made on the black inserts?
I wondered about those. Looks like a clean install.
 

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No. The instructions say you only have to cut the black insert, but the upper fairing will make contact and warp/bow if not cut. I cut both so that everything would sit straight. I called Woodcraft to make sure I have the correct product and it checks out, so I’m not sure what’s up with their instructions. They were a real PITA to install because I was pretty bummed about cutting the upper and then I was nervous not to cut away too much.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #48 (Edited)
Since this is in the open - I'll respond to the edit, what exactly are you checking out though?

My ECU editing bona fides or my registration with the state? The 2 have no relation to each other.

To put you at ease, or make you more uncomfortable (either works for me) - I am a sole proprietor that is now eking out a living doing something I enjoy after a 25 year burn-out career, with the last 10 years devoted to keeping someone else's company running with an actual 100% up-time and literally eating and sleeping that task, only to be booted aside when a graduate of the CEOs alma mater showed up.

They say timing in life is everything, so January 2020 was both a good and bad time to officially strike out on my own. Can you say covid shutdown? Sort of makes taking your life savings to lay the ground work for a new business during 2019 look like a dumb move in retrospect :ROFLMAO::D

Oh yeah, you didn't ask for my life story, you wanted to see my state business registration papers - I don't have any, don't need it in Texas. A county registration is good enough in The Lone Star State.
Technically I am still an IT consulting DBA (y)

Now, you either want the best SC77 ECU or you don't. :devilish::coffee:
@RC45,
Thanks for sharing your story. I completely understand you because I'm from the software background as well.

I'd think that an LLC would offer more financial protection in terms of your personal belongings being separated from the business; whilst a sole proprietor is kind of mingling the 2 together and if anything happens, you can literally lose your shirt. For the type of business you have chosen to be in, I'd buy insurance since firmware controls almost anything major in the bike and in the event of a bike failure, fingers would be pointing at everyone; particularly, in this country, where it is NEVER my fault --- the age of self responsibility is now non-existent in America.

So, I hope it's clearer now why I'm asking --- I'm simply checking for accountability, not just having the ability to produce fun, which I'm certain you probably have that.
I wish you good tidings and hope that you do well and establish a good customer base.

PS:I still think a website would make your business look more legitimate. I know creating a website is boring compared to running a bike on dyno and looking at perf but it's the 21st Century, don't forget that. Sorry for sounding like a nagging business manager. I think you have great potential.
 

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Discussion Starter #49
If you decide to go with a set of cut frame sliders...I installed a set of Woodcrafts that I decided I don’t want anymore. I’ll trade fairings and sliders for your fairings. Bike is 2018 with ~800 miles, no drops or anything.
Ah ... you are a bit late.
I have already placed my order yesterday and they have shipped it..
Thanks, though, for offering.
 

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@RC45,
Thanks for sharing your story. I completely understand you because I'm from the software background as well.
I'd think that an LLC would offer more financial protection in terms of your personal belongings being separated from the business; whilst a sole proprietor is kind of mingling the 2 together and if anything happens, you can literally lose your shirt. For the type of business you have chosen to be in, I'd buy insurance since firmware controls almost anything major in the bike and in the event of a bike failure, fingers would be pointing at everyone; particularly, in this country, where it is NEVER my fault --- the age of self responsibility is now non-existent in America.
So, I hope it's clearer now why I'm asking --- I'm simply checking for accountability, not just having the ability to produce fun, which I'm certain you probably have that.
I wish you good tidings and hope that you do well and establish a good customer base.
No it is no clearer why you are asking. Unless you are asking whom you or your heirs will sue when you T-Bone your bike into a bus full of nuns because you failed to understand an instant on throttle.

Do you work for Microsoft or someone similar that clearly states if you use their stuff and a system crashes you are on your own?

In the event of a "bike failure" (aka rider error) its your problem not mine. You assume all responsibility for violating state and federal laws by a) having your vehicle modified and b) operating your competition modified vehicle on the street.

 

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Discussion Starter #51 (Edited)
Do you work for Microsoft or someone similar that clearly states if you use their stuff and a system crashes you are on your own?
Since you brought this up, I would challenge this trend of thought a little ...

Not quite the same. A crashing Windows OS on the desktop causes annoyance and it increases frustrations.

However, if the same Windows OS is used to monitor a real-time system (like a nuclear plant) and it crashes, MSFT is certainly not off the hook. Those versions of Windows are most likely different and they are tested to death in order to do real-time systems.

Another example of real-time software systems are the firmware of the Boeing planes. They are tested with ISO 9001 certifications and more because many lives are at stake.

The firmware of a CBR1000RR is controlling a real-time system (is it not?); although fewer lives are most likely involved. So, there's my concern which I want to share: when parameters are tweaked above factory-tested levels, the bike has probably not been tested with those parameters. How sure are we that the system will not fail when load is applied? We know Honda is off the hook because they can claim that they did not test it with those parameters; mainly, they do not sell their bikes with those parameters.

In the event of a "bike failure" (aka rider error) its your problem not mine. You assume all responsibility for violating state and federal laws by a) having your vehicle modified and b) operating your competition modified vehicle on the street.
Good to know. Thank you for being honest.
 

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No it is no clearer why you are asking. Unless you are asking whom you or your heirs will sue when you T-Bone your bike into a bus full of nuns because you failed to understand an instant on throttle.

Do you work for Microsoft or someone similar that clearly states if you use their stuff and a system crashes you are on your own?

In the event of a "bike failure" (aka rider error) its your problem not mine. You assume all responsibility for violating state and federal laws by a) having your vehicle modified and b) operating your competition modified vehicle on the street.

As is stated with any aftermarket part installed on any bike ever by every manufacturer and tuner
 

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Since you brought this up, I would challenge this trend of thought a little ...
Not quite the same. A crashing Windows OS on the desktop causes annoyance and it increases frustrations.
However, if the same Windows OS is used to monitor a real-time system (like a nuclear plant) and it crashes, MSFT is certainly not off the hook. Those versions of Windows are most likely different and they are tested to death in order to do real-time systems.
Another example of real-time software systems are the firmware of the Boeing planes. They are tested with ISO 9001 certifications and more because many lives are at stake.
The firmware of a CBR1000RR is controlling a real-time system (is it not?); although fewer lives are most likely involved. So, there's my concern which I want to share: when parameters are tweaked above factory-tested levels, the bike has probably not been tested with those parameters. How sure are we that the system will not fail when load is applied? We know Honda is off the book because they can claim that they did not test it with those parameters; mainly, they do not sell their bikes with those parameters.
And that firmware is Honda's responsibility not mine.
Or FTECU
Or Woolich
Or Rapidbikes
Or DynoJet (Powercommander)
Or DimSport
Or AlientTech
Or ... or... or...

We are simply changing the jetting of the bike - just like tuning a 1980 Z1000
We are simply changing the throttle rate - just like a Motion Pro twist grip.

Responsibility doesn't change.

Oh and about "those versions of Windows" they are not different they are exactly the same. Sometimes even worse as they can sit unpatched for years.

Good to know. Thank you for being honest.
I literally cannot tell if you are being serious or facetious here.

You are responsible for changing out that Woodcraft clip-on, not Woodcraft.
You knew this right?
 

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Discussion Starter #54
Understood and I know where you are coming from.
I was just probing before I commit.
 

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Might be more productive to state what you are looking for out of an ECU tune and then ask what you can expect from RC45 specific tune and service.
Ooh, I am going to sound like a real asshole here by taking a 'devil's advocate' stance, but the way this has developed, I would be very nervous and cautious, about selling a product of any type to a client who seems 'over-pedantic' about the qualifications/experience/corporate legal standing of a seller as opposed to the merits of the product.

I accept we will all research potential purchases, but never have I heard of an enquiry being made into a seller's or company registration or incorporation. As stated by others: where is the relevance?

We are talking of a product with a VERY narrow sales band. The core user will generally be found on forums such as this, and as such, even website representation would, in my view, be cost ineffective. Perhaps we have gone far off-track from the thread's title and purpose, But I genuinely feel saddened by some of the matters that @RC45 has been called to defend - or at least account for.
 

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Ooh, I am going to sound like a real asshole here by taking a 'devil's advocate' stance, but the way this has developed, I would be very nervous and cautious, about selling a product of any type to a client who seems 'over-pedantic' about the qualifications/experience/corporate legal standing of a seller as opposed to the merits of the product.
Although artthury presented his questions and inquiries in a "lawyer like" manner, causing the reactions he got from most people here, I'm thinking he might have been trying to figure out how best to proceed.

I think, from a new person's view, not knowing the history of the forum and people on it, it would be natural to think about "What if situations"
What if something goes wrong?
Things like: What if I send my ECU and I don't get it back? what if if the bike runs like crap afterwards and the tuner doesn't respond?

I know these questions might sound offensive to a business owner but bad things could happen without any bad intentions and it would be wise to at least think about them from a buyer's view.

For example, unlike my bike's ECU that can be bought for 80-100 on ebay, the new SPs are in the 1500-2000 range. That's a big risk to send in an ECU to someone and have anything go wrong.

Perhaps artthury was just trying to figure out how he could have proceed, if something did go wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter #58 (Edited)
I think @Bosston has captured some of the sentiments of my queries to @RC45.
I guess if you want me to say it in 2 words, I am looking for :
  1. Fun(Performance)
  2. Safety(business+product).
As I have said, I think any major vendor in this business of refreshing ECU has Fun in mind and they probably put a lot of effort in this area. So, I'm going to give them a benefit of doubt until I test it myself.

As for Safety ...

Business transparency:
In a Forum like this, many people say and oped all day long hiding behind a screen username and that's OK as bike folks sharing experiences and helping out one another. I appreciate it a lot. But, for an entity claiming to be a legitimate business, there needs to be a "store-front", a commitment to customers so that it is a visible & transparent entity. Again, if I'm buying a small piece of plastic replacement that will never kill me, I feel fine buying from an eBay tiny unknown merchant in China. But, we are talking reconfiguring the firmware of the ECU here and overwriting the entire firmware. Who is this person selling this service? What's his full name? Where is the business located? Website? Does he have a YouTube channel? What's in the channel? How many years has he been doing this? Does the YouTube channel reflect that? It's OK to start off in one's garage but still have a store-front. It's basic business. So, I probe and check as a diligent consumer.

Product safety:
As a software person (with decades under my belt), I know how much testing a piece of software needs usually depends on the criticality of the software. In general, a program used to calculate and keep track of my daily running routine (exercising) is most likely tested well but certainly not ISO9001 certified or higher. Recall that Testing = $$$$. On the other hand, a software monitoring the heart-rhythm of a patient in ICU better be tested to death (pun intended). This leads to the different types of software: real-time vs non-real-time. The firmware in the ECU is definitely a real-time software and it must execute with hard timing-constraints or the system can fail. For a concrete example, this is what ThrottleByWire (TBW) is all about. The digital system receives an analog signal from physical input sensors and makes a decision to do something else under the constraint of time (in this case, most likely within microseconds or even nanoseconds). In terms of testing, if I were Honda (with an assigned budget for testing -- no one has unlimited budget for testing), I will have test-suites for the firmware centered on the parameter sets I'm selling to the different global regions. Parameters outside those ranges will be tested but most likely less intensely because I do not have products sold with those parameters. I will slap a WARNING to say that if you change the firmware, you are 100% on your own. So, I am very certain that HONDA is completely off the hook, if the consumer replace the firmware.
NOTE: When I say failure, I'm not talking about rider's mistakes or recklessness. I am referring to system failures due to firmware faults in an execution path (using those peripheral parameter ranges) that have not been tested before.

I guess, when it comes to Fun, sometimes we tend to ignore the Safety and we need to balance the two. Only you can make that decision and then swallow the risks after you make it. This is where I was coming from and I have no ill-intention towards any vendor. I apologize to all of you if I have stepped on any foot or ruffled any feathers. I'm just a simple consumer doing my job.
 

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I think @Bosston has captured some of the sentiments of my queries to @RC45.
I guess if you want me to say it in 2 words, I am looking for :
  1. Fun(Performance)
  2. Safety(business+product).
As I have said, I think any major vendor in this business of refreshing ECU has Fun in mind and they probably put a lot of effort in this area. So, I'm going to give them a benefit of doubt until I test it myself.

As for Safety ...

Business transparency:
In a Forum like this, many people say and oped all day long hiding behind a screen username and that's OK as bike folks sharing experiences and helping out one another. I appreciate it a lot. But, for an entity claiming to be a legitimate business, there needs to be a "store-front", a commitment to customers so that it is a visible & transparent entity. Again, if I'm buying a small piece of plastic replacement that will never kill me, I feel fine buying from an eBay tiny unknown merchant in China. But, we are talking reconfiguring the firmware of the ECU here and overwriting the entire firmware. Who is this person selling this service? What's his full name? Where is the business located? Website? Does he have a YouTube channel? What's in the channel? How many years has he been doing this? Does the YouTube channel reflect that? It's OK to start off in one's garage but still have a store-front. It's basic business. So, I probe and check as a diligent consumer.

Product safety:
As a software person (with decades under my belt), I know how much testing a piece of software needs usually depends on the criticality of the software. In general, a program used to calculate and keep track of my daily running routine (exercising) is most likely tested well but certainly not ISO9001 certified or higher. Recall that Testing = $$$$. On the other hand, a software monitoring the heart-rhythm of a patient in ICU better be tested to death (pun intended). This leads to the different types of software: real-time vs non-real-time. The firmware in the ECU is definitely a real-time software and it must execute with hard timing-constraints or the system can fail. For a concrete example, this is what ThrottleByWire (TBW) is all about. The digital system receives an analog signal from physical input sensors and makes a decision to do something else under the constraint of time (in this case, most likely within microseconds or even nanoseconds). In terms of testing, if I were Honda, I will have test-suites for the firmware centered on the parameter sets I'm selling to the different global regions. Parameters outside those ranges will be tested but most likely less intensely because I do not have products sold with those parameters. I will slap a WARNING to say that if you change the firmware, you are 100% on your own. So, I am very certain that HONDA is completely off the hook, if the consumer replace the firmware.
NOTE: When I say failure, I'm not talking about rider's mistakes or recklessness. I am referring to system failures due to firmware faults in an execution path that have not been tested before.

I guess, when it comes to Fun, sometimes we tend to ignore the Safety and we need to balance the two. Only you can make that decision and then swallow the risks after you make it. This is where I was coming from and I have no ill-intention towards any vendor. I apologize to all of you if I have stepped on any foot or ruffled any feathers. I'm just a simple consumer doing my job.
Sounds like you are better off looking into Danos or one of the other ECU flash or tuning vendors.
 

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I think @Bosston has captured some of the sentiments of my queries to @RC45.
I guess if you want me to say it in 2 words, I am looking for :
  1. Fun(Performance)
  2. Safety(business+product).
As I have said, I think any major vendor in this business of refreshing ECU has Fun in mind and they probably put a lot of effort in this area. So, I'm going to give them a benefit of doubt until I test it myself.

As for Safety ...

Business transparency:
In a Forum like this, many people say and oped all day long hiding behind a screen username and that's OK as bike folks sharing experiences and helping out one another. I appreciate it a lot. But, for an entity claiming to be a legitimate business, there needs to be a "store-front", a commitment to customers so that it is a visible & transparent entity. Again, if I'm buying a small piece of plastic replacement that will never kill me, I feel fine buying from an eBay tiny unknown merchant in China. But, we are talking reconfiguring the firmware of the ECU here and overwriting the entire firmware. Who is this person selling this service? What's his full name? Where is the business located? Website? Does he have a YouTube channel? What's in the channel? How many years has he been doing this? Does the YouTube channel reflect that? It's OK to start off in one's garage but still have a store-front. It's basic business. So, I probe and check as a diligent consumer.

Product safety:
As a software person (with decades under my belt), I know how much testing a piece of software needs usually depends on the criticality of the software. In general, a program used to calculate and keep track of my daily running routine (exercising) is most likely tested well but certainly not ISO9001 certified or higher. Recall that Testing = $$$$. On the other hand, a software monitoring the heart-rhythm of a patient in ICU better be tested to death (pun intended). This leads to the different types of software: real-time vs non-real-time. The firmware in the ECU is definitely a real-time software and it must execute with hard timing-constraints or the system can fail. For a concrete example, this is what ThrottleByWire (TBW) is all about. The digital system receives an analog signal from physical input sensors and makes a decision to do something else under the constraint of time (in this case, most likely within microseconds or even nanoseconds). In terms of testing, if I were Honda, I will have test-suites for the firmware centered on the parameter sets I'm selling to the different global regions. Parameters outside those ranges will be tested but most likely less intensely because I do not have products sold with those parameters. I will slap a WARNING to say that if you change the firmware, you are 100% on your own. So, I am very certain that HONDA is completely off the hook, if the consumer replace the firmware.
NOTE: When I say failure, I'm not talking about rider's mistakes or recklessness. I am referring to system failures due to firmware faults in an execution path that have not been tested before.

I guess, when it comes to Fun, sometimes we tend to ignore the Safety and we need to balance the two. Only you can make that decision and then swallow the risks after you make it. This is where I was coming from and I have no ill-intention towards any vendor. I apologize to all of you if I have stepped on any foot or ruffled any feathers. I'm just a simple consumer doing my job.
Wow - I never knew any of this. This is all new and news to me /sarcasm
Wheres the rolling eye emoticon when you need it?

So you going to subject Danos or SBU or EDR or Xtreme or Brocks or Brentune or EJR or MR or Bauce etc to the same technical lecture and scrutiny? Or are you going to assume somehow they must understand and know ECU tuning differently because they have a "store front"?

Funny thing is - some of those "big names" have relied on my input and feedback on the back end to complete their SC77 mod efforts. Go figure.

But you know what is also basic business, that the customer is NOT always right and you don't have to win every sale or convert every prospect.
Good luck in your search Art, but I obliviously am not the person best suited to work with your ECU.
 
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