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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Yesterday I took my new RR-R SP to a HOT (100F) Chuckwalla for a shake down on stock Pirelli Diablo Supercorsa SP V3 tires. Although these tires do not require tire warmers I did run them for stability and efficiency of on-track time. Ran them at 34 PSI front and 28 PSI rear, hot off the warmers. Pressures rose to 31 PSI rear - returned back to 29 PSI, front was stable.

Ran suspension in A1 (track) mode with no changes initially and bike stock as delivered from dealer, however, after 3 sessions the tires were toast - I had about 250 street miles on them before the track event.

I am 200 lbs with full gear and fork bike sag was 30 mm, rider sag 44 mm - the NPX fork has 125 mm of travel, 1/3 of that is about 42 mm which is "ideal sag".
Shock had 15 mm bike and 31 mm rider.

The tire wear indicated a rebound issue front and rear and lack of spring support.

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To solve this I added 3 turns preload to the fork to keep it off the bottom - ended the day with 2 mm of unused fork travel.
I also added 5 turns preload at the rear.
I switched to M1 mode but no changes to that setting and I experimented with the engine braking setting.
And I installed a NEW set of Pirelli Diablo Supercorsa SP (TD compound) 33 PSI front and 26 PSI rear, hot off the warmers.
When I came in after my first session on the TDs the front pressure rose to 34 (left alone) and the rear 29.5 (brought that back to 28) and left them alone for the remaining 4 sessions - tires looked great after these changes.

Bike tracked much better with the new set of tires and given their more durable compound they were more suitable for the hot track conditions.
The geometry changes allowed the bike to have the braking and drive support I needed whilst maintaining the ability to be right on the apex of each corner with very good accuracy.

Lap times were mainly low 1:54s with several low 53's - this is impressive on what is basically a bone stock motorcycle. I noticed ZERO issues with drive grip and acceleration was really good! I hit a top speed of 141 mph on the main straight - this is quite fast for this track and I will once again confirm there is no "sign off" anywhere in the rev range until you reach the limiter at 14,500 - the bike rips!

The bike is overall very composed and allows the rider to enter the corner with great confidence. No sign of ABS intervention and brake feel was excellent and the bike tracked in-line. Trail braking was not an issue and the bike didn't stand up when doing so.

I found the engine braking setting to be quite subtle but effective on track. Setting 3 (least engine braking) works great on the street and track but when I tried setting 1 (most engine braking) I could run the bike into the corner a little faster and use less brake force to pull the bike down to the apex - I liked that as I didn't have to wait as long for the bike to be pointed so I could begin the turn and pick up the throttle.

So I ended the day with settings ALL in level 1 with suspension in setting M1 in default setting.

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This bike (stock) is good enough for an expert-level club racer with DOTs or slicks to get a top 5 class against modified race bikes - it is really much better than I expected! I can only imagine how good it could be with another 25-30 hp and the ability to tune the engine characteristics.

Well done Honda.
 

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Most excellent write up. I’m so glad you got your suspension sorted, and the info about the EB was very informative.
 

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[snip]
This bike (stock) is good enough for an expert-level club racer with DOTs or slicks to get a top 5 class against modified race bikes - it is really much better than I expected! I can only imagine how good it could be with another 25-30 hp and the ability to tune the engine characteristics.

Well done Honda.
I expect once you have HRC kitted the bike, the engine tuning section will get the least of your attention and you will get a most of the enjoyment in configurign the chassis and handling control sections (y)

Most excellent write up. I’m so glad you got your suspension sorted, and the info about the EB was very informative.
This is why I am so against Disable Fuel Cut on Decel for these RC213V-S ECU based control systems (SC77 and SC82 systems share this same direct heritage) - the very area of the throttle control interface that implements these EB setup nuances is flooded with fuel when Fuel Cutoff on Decel is disabled rendering any handling advantage of the varying EB setup useless.

In the SC77 and SC82 HRC ECU implementations a very granular and detailed EB per gear per rev range setup that allows the OP level of rider to specifically tailor the EB settings to act as a turn in aid - with further refinement of another section to manage any actual skid that the EB settings might induce.

I have always said the nuanced exceptionalism of the (both street & HRC) configured SP2 SC77 (& now the SC82) RC213V-S based control system, needed/s exceptional riders to fully exploit and enjoy. Which is why the Fireblade cleaned up every regional Superbike series around the world in 2018 & 2019. The SC82 is going to do the same thing.

The real power and control capable with the SC77 setup was lost to poor marketing by Honda (and a cynical press corp), but finally the system as improved and implemented in the SC82, should and is getting the attention and praise it deserves.

In HRC guise, the SC82 will further reward this level of skilled rider with a near factory level of adjust-ability in chassis behavior and I look forward to that feedback - the fuel and ignition mapping components are probably the smallest component of the HRC ECU capabilities in this RC213V-S based setup.
 

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Good information. Despite the neutered US tune, I thought the bike felt pretty strong, especially at 8K rpm or above. This is my first Honda, and the stability in a corner feels great.

San
 

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Yesterday I took my new RR-R SP to a HOT (100F) Chuckwalla for a shake down on stock Pirelli Diablo Supercorsa SP V3 tires.
Thanks for report. good read.

The tire wear indicated a rebound issue front and rear and lack of spring support.
.
Your pictures are very clear. Could you do a quick explanation on how you read your tire?


Also, perhaps in a new thread, give your thoughts on engine breaking. How do you go about breaking in your race bike engines.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
@Bosston reading a tire for issues like rebound, cold, hot and spring tear is a long discussion but a really good summary can be seen here --> Race Track Motorcycle Tyre Wear Guide - Types and Causes

Engine braking comes from roll off of the throttle and weight transfer from the rear of the bike to the front. Sometimes this can overslow the bike so there are a few things you can do to change this behavior. Before engine braking was adjustable electronically tuners would run different ramps and/or springs in the slipper clutch OR add fuel through things link idle air control valves or Power Commanders at closed throttle. Many bikes have adjustable engine braking as standard these days. I first saw it on Ducati's 1199 Panigale back in 2012. On the twin I like to run as little engine braking as possible but yesterday I did find that when I ran the same control at its highest setting, level 3, I had to use the brakes more to get it slowed and pointed, by contrast, with the engine braking at level 1 I didn't have to do this quite as much. The engine braking setting on the RR-R is quite subtle. I can't tell any difference on the street or in the canyons really but on track at a decent pace I was able to.

I treat all bikes the same. I do 2-3 complete warm-ups and complete cool-downs of the bike then ride for the first 25-50 miles without much aggression. Next I vary the rpm and push a little harder then change the oil somewhere between 100-300 miles. Then I just ride the bike, never once had an issue. Just vary the load to break in the rings, swap the oil to get rid of the metal shavings and I always install a magnetic drain plug too. I change the oil every 3 days at the track or 1,000 miles with a filter on every other change.

Hope that answers your questions, lmk if you have any others.
 

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@roadracerx Where did you find oil filters and oil? I want to change mine pretty soon. Do you have a part number for the magnetic oil drain plug? I'm local BTW. Thanks.

San
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
@oldmansan Pro Bolt likely makes a magnetic drain plug but I bought one from Ten Kate when I order rearsets and captive wheel spacers.

I run STOCK oil filters. K&N and/or aftermarket filters are forbidden in racing after there was an issue years ago with aftermarket.


This one might work - seems to be the correct size but I would double-check.

 

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@oldmansan Pro Bolt likely makes a magnetic drain plug but I bought one from Ten Kate when I order rearsets and captive wheel spacers.

I run STOCK oil filters. K&N and/or aftermarket filters are forbidden in racing after there was an issue years ago with aftermarket.

Thanks. In another thread there was talk of no stock oil filters available for the 2021. Do you have a part number for the filter? What oil are you using?

San
 

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Discussion Starter #11
@oldmansan ah I see, well I just told the dealer I needed a drain plug and filter for the new bike and they handed one of each to me. I will get back to you after I look at the part number on the filter that is still on the bike and will double-check what they gave me.

I used Honda 0w30 HP4s. Race kit manual says to fill a little higher so I replaced with 3.3 litres.
 

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@oldmansan ah I see, well I just told the dealer I needed a drain plug and filter for the new bike and they handed one of each to me. I will get back to you after I look at the part number on the filter that is still on the bike and will double-check what they gave me.

I used Honda 0w30 HP4s. Race kit manual says to fill a little higher so I replaced with 3.3 litres.
I appreciate your help.

San
 
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Imagine having to mention "SC77" four times in one comment just to make yourself relevant to the discussion....
Considering the SC82 ECU control system is a direct derivative of the SC77 ECU control system which is in turn a direct derivative of the RC213V-S control system the contextual information is completely relevant.
As much as you wish the SC82 Control System was "all new " it is not.
As with ALL Honda products it is development heavily based on previous models.
It pains you to your very core that the SC77 model was the SC82 Control System debuting on the SC59 Chassis and the SC82 is the SC77 Control System matured and merged onto the new Chassis.
The MCU running the control system may be new and the surrounding security enhanced but the actual core code logic is still RC213V-S derived and as such SC77 Control System knowledge directly translates and is relevant.
The only people that seem to think the SC82 Control System appeared out of a vacuum are the people who did NOT spend significant time working with the SC77 Control System.
I would suggest you RTFM for the SC77 HRC ECU and the SC82 HRC ECU but you don't have either so it wouldn't help.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
@Bevo is it quite obvious your goal is to de-rail @davidalshire21 attempt to ask legitimate questions. @RC45 is the one offering services and like David I have also asked questions that are dodged. I am sure you can appreciate a clear, simple, helpful answer - this is what I am all about and the SOLE reason I take time out of my day to share helpful information with those who are interested. It is a dis-service to all who take the time to read the threads I create to not get that info. Now let's get back to the intent of the thread, the NEW bike on track.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
To @davidalshire21 point, the SC77 is not really the same as the SC82. It is reasonable to assume that the race ecu that HRC offers has similarities common to both SC77 and SC82, however, those SAME similarities at a functional level are found with kit ECUs from Kawasaki, Suzuki and Yamaha as well - I have them all if anyone has questions.

The effectiveness of the electronics on the SC82 is vastly different and this has likely more to do with the Bosch 6-axis IMU platform than tweaked settings of the previous ecu. I'm sure over these past few years while Honda slow-played the world on their offerings they reverse-engineered what Aprilia, Ducati, Yamaha, Kawasaki and then Suzuki (IN THAT ORDER) released and decided they couldn't beat 'em so why not go the way of BMW and join 'em.

Gearing and tire changes don't appear to be an issue as evidenced by the Qatar release where Honda used SC-based Pirelli Superbike slicks (much taller rear than stock) and Euro bikes have 16/40 vs. US 16/43 and I have personally installed 15/44 gearing.

Honda HAS made something special in the SC82 and even the AFM class champion Jay Uribe, a guy I line up and race against (although I am not much competition for him lol), recently said he was FASTER on the stock bike than he was on his SC77 Superbike.

In summary, if you have the means, get a SC82, don't waste any more time and/or money on the SC77 as the SC82 is better stock than the SC77 in ANY form.
 

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How about another pic of riding the RR-R at Chuckwalla?

View attachment 260639

Anyone have questions? I'm happy to answer....
Ok Here's a question: How hot did the SC82 get running hard at Chuckwalla on a 100+ degree day? At what temp would you shut it down?

When I ran at Buttonwillow with my 600 on a 105 degree day I saw water temps hitting up to 230. Really worried me but it ran perfect the whole time. Also what do you use for coolant, 50/50 or distilled water with some type of wetter?
 
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