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Yes I have used Woolich to flash my ECUs before, but this solution has been developed with careful respect for Woolich work, IP and without exploiting their tools - but this is the real world so I am not expecting to be shown the same respect once our fixed ECUs get out into the wild.
Maybe they all need to be locked? LOL


First the technical stuff:
Woolich do not leave the ECU in a 'locked' state. So it is possible to use other tools to overwrite a Woolich flashed Honda ECU. It is unclear if they did this as a courtesy to the ECU owner or because it was simpler than developing a mechanism that for example might alter the boot loader/bin relationship. This could be why FTECU flashed ECUs are not easily over writable by other vendors flashing tools.

Did you flash your ECU with your own Woolich kit or have someone else do it for you?
I only ask this question to understand if you (or others) will need/want to keep using your Woolich setup to keep flashing your ECU.
The solution I discuss earlier would mean the existing Woolich flash is overwritten with a new image that includes the correct tire/sprocket/transmission ratio.
You can see how if you then take Woolich tools and rewrite the ECU with a new Woolich tune the tire/sprocket/transmission corrected image will be over written.

This solution is for the rider that values the correct tire/sprocket/transmission ratio values more than the last few extra HP. :)
OK, so for clarification, Your solution does not include the de-restrictions for HP? Is it only for the sprocket/tire size? Me personally I’m good with “one and done” and have no interest doing my own adjustments, but I do like both options in the flash.
 

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Discussion Starter #42 (Edited)
OK, so for clarification, Your solution does not include the de-restrictions for HP? Is it only for the sprocket/tire size? Me personally I’m good with “one and done” and have no interest doing my own adjustments, but I do like both options in the flash.
There is some confusion I see. When I say "looking for every last HP" I mean to keep returning to the dyno trying to get every last HP out with new fuel and ignition table updates every week.

Optimized fuel and ignition tables based on installed exhaust and fuel used, as well as ETV table throttle restrictions, top speed limit and PAIR/EVAP/Servo remove features are of course already part of the flash solution.

What if you were to flash your fix into the ECU and then use the woolich software to read the ECU with your fixed flash in place and save as a bin file in woolich. Would the fix then be saved in that bin file or would you lose it? Hope that makes sense
This is exactly the process that would be used to reverse engineer our solution. This is why the first step Woolich do is have folks read the ECU and then the bin is sent to them for reverse engineering.

So just the same way Woolich password their flash (not the entire ECU like FT) the ECU read would not be understood by the Woolich software and not be able to be edited and then rewritten.

We would love to be able to work with them regarding these feature updates, but doubt they would be interested in sharing the customer base.
 

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There is some confusion I see. When I say "looking for every last HP" I mean to keep returning to the dyno trying to get every last HP out with new fuel and ignition table updates every week.

Optimized fuel and ignition tables based on installed exhaust and fuel used, as well as ETV table throttle restrictions, top speed limit and PAIR/EVAP/Servo remove features are of course already part of the flash solution.


This is exactly the process that would be used to reverse engineer our solution. This is why the first step Woolich do is have folks read the ECU and then the bin is sent to them for reverse engineering.

So just the same way Woolich password their flash (not the entire ECU like FT) the ECU read would not be understood by the Woolich software and not be able to be edited and then rewritten.

We would love to be able to work with them regarding these feature updates, but doubt they would be interested in sharing the customer base.
Yeah I figured their software would not be able to edit whatever your changes are I just figured they would stay as is but I see what you are getting at.
Unless someone was using your software to read/write to the ECU the changes would be a one time deal and that would be pointless for the track boys changing tires/gearing per track
 

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Discussion Starter #45
Bet you never thought your original purchase of the bike would end with you being an engineer and software developer! Funny how things work out but I commend you for sticking with it. Great work brother
I sure didn't lol

Yeah I figured their software would not be able to edit whatever your changes are I just figured they would stay as is but I see what you are getting at.
Unless someone was using your software to read/write to the ECU the changes would be a one time deal and that would be pointless for the track boys changing tires/gearing per track
Yes, for now it would be a mail in flash option. Some people have said they just want to run a 200/50 or 200/55 tire from their favorite brand and stick with that profile for most of the year. I have spoken to others that just went up 2 or 3 teeth at the rear or down 1 tooth in the front and won't be swapping out ratios too often.

If the mainstream ECU flashing vendors would not insist on password encrypting everything then a simple overlay bit write might be possible, but paranoia seems to rule the ECU flashing world. From my research it appears that password locked up non-OEM ECU updates are illegal in the EU and Japan but that doesn't stop the mainstream guys from locking everything up solid.
 

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I sure didn't lol


Yes, for now it would be a mail in flash option. Some people have said they just want to run a 200/50 or 200/55 tire from their favorite brand and stick with that profile for most of the year. I have spoken to others that just went up 2 or 3 teeth at the rear or down 1 tooth in the front and won't be swapping out ratios too often.

If the mainstream ECU flashing vendors would not insist on password encrypting everything then a simple overlay bit write might be possible, but paranoia seems to rule the ECU flashing world. From my research it appears that password locked up non-OEM ECU updates are illegal in the EU and Japan but that doesn't stop the mainstream guys from locking everything up solid.
Be glad we aren't into farm equipment! Ever see the shit John Deere pulls with their equipment computer access. Crazy stuff.
I'm just happy there are companies out there with software and options for us. I remember the days of the only options were piggy back systems and "guess" tunes. Watching guys load some tune off the website and the thing running so lean the headers would glow red. Haha hey we have it good these days.
 

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Discussion Starter #49
Yes. But I will still have a soft spot for the SC77 as its the last of the 'easy to access' ECUs. And I think in the end there will be more SC77s on the road than SC82's. even if the base model gets to our shores.
 

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I looked into the new RR-R and absolutely love the look of the bike, the power output, and all the new electronics finally competing with the other top super bikes but for the street it just doesn't seem like a bike worth messing with.
Everything about the bike is geared towards hard core track riding/racing. The riding position completely blows for the street unless you are 5'6" or under.
For $25K even if I rode at the track I'd look into a used bike of a different model. I think the SC77 might be the last model for the street riders.
Have you rode the 2012-2016 1krr? curious how it compares to the 2017-2019 bike for street riding
 

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I looked into the new RR-R and absolutely love the look of the bike, the power output, and all the new electronics finally competing with the other top super bikes but for the street it just doesn't seem like a bike worth messing with.
Everything about the bike is geared towards hard core track riding/racing. The riding position completely blows for the street unless you are 5'6" or under.
For $25K even if I rode at the track I'd look into a used bike of a different model. I think the SC77 might be the last model for the street riders.
Have you rode the 2012-2016 1krr? curious how it compares to the 2017-2019 bike for street riding

I would hit the new $17.5K. Dayotna any time before any 20K+ bike. I am keeping fingers crossed Triumph will get to their sense and release a non special edition eventually. Yes, the all CF looks great, no way it is a rational decision to be used at the track. Those things costs like half the bike as parts, and I am not for swapping fairings left and right since I ride all my bikes both street and track. Who in their rind mind makes a track weapon in special limited numbered edition only?
 

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Stumbled on this in a Google search. I'm a track only rider and pretty much avoided the 1000rr because of this (and other electronic hurdles). But with the new bike coming out, I may be tempted to search out a sale and get it flashed... I've used woolich in the past. Wonder if this solution is an either or, or if you can just add the additional tire calibration settings to an already woolich flashed ECU...
 

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Discussion Starter #53
Stumbled on this in a Google search. I'm a track only rider and pretty much avoided the 1000rr because of this (and other electronic hurdles). But with the new bike coming out, I may be tempted to search out a sale and get it flashed... I've used woolich in the past. Wonder if this solution is an either or, or if you can just add the additional tire calibration settings to an already woolich flashed ECU...
Without getting too technical, that is the exact result. Everything 'the main stream ECU flashing vendors' exposed plus a lot more
But to be sure while Woolich have created a great end-user tool, they have missed out on critical other settings and parameters within the SC77 ECU.
We have these as wella s all the basics solved.
 

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And to be clear, you are adding options for tire changes (incl. 200/55, 200/60 rear's), sprocket changes, and adding independent wheelie/traction control. i.e. I can have wheelie control off with some minimal traction control setting on?
 

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I would hit the new $17.5K. Dayotna any time before any 20K+ bike . . .
Whether it be Honda, Yamaha R1, or other brand, I think spending an extra few thousand over the Triumph Daytona price would be well justified. The Triumph is merely a dated 675 trumped up with carbon, Ohlins, Brembos, and a few extra horses.

Triumph UK has been very vocal about no further Daytonas in any form. However, how many of us have been duped before when the almighty dollar or pound governs a manufacturer's destiny!!;)
 

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Discussion Starter #56
And to be clear, you are adding options for tire changes (incl. 200/55, 200/60 rear's), sprocket changes, and adding independent wheelie/traction control. i.e. I can have wheelie control off with some minimal traction control setting on?
For now the WC/TC relation in this solution would be hard set at some value different to stock.
If separate and regularly changing TC vs WC is important, then you will want to buy a 2019 model as they TC and WC are separate in the dash menus.
We are working on getting 2018/17 bikes to have these new dash configuration settings as well but not there yet.

The options for tire, sprocket and even custom transmission ratios are all hard coded for now - the ultimate upgrade will be when the HRC Sport Kit Menu is finally working properly. But even the HRC ECUs leave some settings to reflash duties vs dash board options.
 

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Any chance of an "auto" calibration like some bikes do now? Or to rig a process of button pushes or short some pins to tell the ECU to recalibrate? I only ask because I've heard some bikes do that already.
 

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Discussion Starter #58
Any chance of an "auto" calibration like some bikes do now? Or to rig a process of button pushes or short some pins to tell the ECU to recalibrate? I only ask because I've heard some bikes do that already.
I don't think anyone other than HRC truly knows exactly what they are keying off - we do know that the HRC version of our ECUs use hard code sizes for the only variables present in the system. Its these static variables we are now able to change.
And unless a bike has an 'invoke calibration mode now" option, they are most likely calibrating at every rollout.
No rollout check means the system is fully functional as soon as you start rolling out the pits no matter what the speed limit is or how near you pit from pit exit - which appears one of the primary reasons HRC did not go with any sort of calibration rollout (other than sensor voltage check).

The ultimate solution will be enabling the Sport Kit Menu.
 

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Whether it be Honda, Yamaha R1, or other brand, I think spending an extra few thousand over the Triumph Daytona price would be well justified. The Triumph is merely a dated 675 trumped up with carbon, Ohlins, Brembos, and a few extra horses.

Triumph UK has been very vocal about no further Daytonas in any form. However, how many of us have been duped before when the almighty dollar or pound governs a manufacturer's destiny!!;)
Well, it is a 765, at 390LBS stock, and 128HP at the wheel, and a much better TQ delivery to boot. But more imptortantly, it is something nothing else is. A TRIPLE. The chassis is magic, as is the transmission. It is not about HP only.
 

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. . . It is not about HP only.
No suggestion at all about it being about 'HP only'.

Merely offering my view that the bike doesn't justify the inflated price tag (of which a percentage goes to Dorna as a licencing fee). Sure, it's a 'nice' bike, but all I'm saying is that there's so much more on offer with the $20K-plus bikes.

Of further interest is that the new Daytona is not meeting market expectations in USA/Canada. Some of the 765 bikes allocated have already found their way to Australia (which was to have received only the UK/Euro/rest of world bikes). Your version is nicer looking though with the red accents as opposed to the UK's plainer look. Each to their own though.(y)
 
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