Honda CBR 1000RR Forums banner

21 - 40 of 40 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
Discussion Starter #22
i tried lot of ideas to make the Pistons not to travel far back
Could you list your ideas?
Any of them work?

I wonder if there's a spec for the gap between pads and the disks. I don't see anything in the service manual for measuring this gap; making me think that Honda didn't think this was important.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
Discussion Starter #23
Might wanna ride the bike first and use the brakes while actually moving before you spend time and money correcting a problem you may or may not have. What you are describing happens on my bike as well while just sitting in the garage. I have stainless lines and a Brembo MC.
I do agree that maybe I'm chasing a non-issue.

However, the reason I've been thinking that this is an issue is due to the amount of travel.

I like to see a large space between the lever and the handle bar when the lever is squeezed.
On this bike, which has some aftermarket adjustable levers, not stock, I have to put the adjustment on the farthest setting not to hit the handle bar when squeezing.
I don't know where the stock handle bars would stop.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
After market levers can cause travel issues too, here is a set of levers from Amazon; after riding with them for a day, switched back to a previous set of another brand of levers. The difference was about 1/2" (12mm) at the farthest setting. Seems like my 1-star review with pictures got suppressed, but here's what I posted:


TITLE Updated: Clutch lever has manufacturing issue; lever reach 1/4" less than last set (max reach)

Update (03/10/2020):
Summary: Clutch lever has manufacturing issue; lever reach is less than last set (at maximum reach).

Discussion:
1) A couple times over the past week, I stalled the bike pulling away, which I attributed to being a closer reach than my last lever set. However, I found that the #6 (furthest) position has a defect, where by the adjuster can turn past 6 (effectively towards 7), but the lever reach reduces to 3-4 position, resulting in the clutch engaging sooner, and stalling the bike. I attempted to see if it was an assembly issue, took the lever apart and found that the detent ball spring and corresponding groove where it sits is in the wrong area (off by 1/2 notch, past position 6).

2) 2nd issue is that the self locking nuts do not engage properly for the pivot adjuster, the screws are too short by 5mm. For comparison, the level to body (red to black) do have the correct length screws. The screw threads into the bottom of the bracket, and the lock nut locks against it, so it would not likely come out; HOWEVER, the short bolt turns the self locking nut effectively into a plain hex nut without locking element. Solution is longer bolts, or apply thread locking compound.

Updated Summary: Too many minor defects, and the lever switching positions, by over traveling, is a significant problem. I will keep these, but only as back up / emergency use only levers.

Original Post (03/01/2020).
Summary: Great levers for the price, installed on my 2007 CBR1000RR.

Discussion: I had another set of after market levers on my bike, but I saw these and wanted to have another set on hand. It would be a good idea to grease the pivot bolt, and the pivot points for both the brake/clutch points during assembly.

Pros: Good fit & finish; nice packaging (protected well in shipping); smooth operation

Neutral: The brake lever had a little bit of up/down play (about 1/4-3/8"), vs. the clutch which had 1/16-1/8" play; however, the brake lever operation is completely satisfactory, so this is a non-issue. The up/down play noted was between the end of the lever (red part) and the black part (not the lever assembly to the brake/clutch body.

Cons: The front brake lever pivot point, which is brass/bronze (yellow metal), was not greased, and is held in with a C/E-clip; it would have been great if that was already greased, vs. having to disassemble, grease and re-assemble.

258830

258831
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
242 Posts
On this bike, which has some aftermarket adjustable levers, not stock, I have to put the adjustment on the farthest setting not to hit the handle bar when squeezing.
I don't know where the stock handle bars would stop.
What is the pivot distance?? Measured from the bolt to where the master cylinder plunger sticks into the lever. The way the mechanical advantage works a couple millimeters difference there can have a significant impact on how far the lever travels.

For reference, on the Honda OEM levers that adjust from a 1-6, even at the lowest setting the lever will NOT go to the bar, although there may not be enough room for your fingers underneath.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Could you list your ideas?
Any of them work?

I wonder if there's a spec for the gap between pads and the disks. I don't see anything in the service manual for measuring this gap; making me think that Honda didn't think this was important.
hi,

usually it is a personal preference, if the pads get too tight, u will face difficulty in pushing the bike manually,

i noticed the extra lever travel, during brake bleeding, that pistons were compression the pads, and then returning

i had removed the whole setup from the bike, MC, calpiers and brake lines, and did the bleeding both by reverse bleeding and standard bleeding,

since i had applied silicon grease on the outer dust seals the pistons seems to become very smooth, and they slip into the calipers the moment i release the lever, i measured the cross distance between the pads and disc, b4 removing,

first method i used was to squeeze the lever to max at the time of bleeding and tie it, then injected brake fluid thru the bleed nipples of each caliper till the point the pistons compress with the pads to measured distance, as once the lever is squeesed the fluid will not flow back to the resorvoir, and then slowly releasing the lever, and at the same time maintaining pressure thru bleed nipples, so the pistons would not go back.

second method to hold individual pistons by long nose plier with rubber hose at the tips to prevent piston damage, this process is time consuming and would require at least two people

it worked for me, but everyone might have a different ideas and results

thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
Discussion Starter #27
I measured the thickness on the two front rotors. ~4.2 on both.
They need to be replaced at 4.0mm.

couple of q's.
- could this cause the travel issue / sponginess? Frankly, from my car experience I would say no.

- New OEM rotors are super expensive. What's the best way to get new ones?
The cheapos off of ebay?
Used off of ebay? my problem with this option is who know what condition they would be in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
242 Posts
I measured the thickness on the two front rotors. ~4.2 on both.
They need to be replaced at 4.0mm.

couple of q's.
- could this cause the travel issue / sponginess? Frankly, from my car experience I would say no.

- New OEM rotors are super expensive. What's the best way to get new ones?
The cheapos off of ebay?
Used off of ebay? my problem with this option is who know what condition they would be in.
The rotors have little to do with the problem you are having. Looking through your previous posts, I'm trying to figure out if the mushy feeling or extra travel you describe is before or after the pads are already firmly pushed against the rotor.

#1: If you take the brake lever and gently pull on it until it just starts to feel resistance, is this distance too long for you?

OR

#2: If you take the brake lever at the point of resistance and you squeeze really hard, is this distance too long for you?

Even with stainless lines, Brembo master cylinder and calipers, if you squeeze REALLY hard it will still go to the bar but that's not a relevant issue because it's way beyond the range at which you would use the brakes. This is just a tiny bit of expansion in the system. In fact if you look at your brake lines as you squeeze REALLY hard on the lever you can see the brake lines moving a little from deforming a tiny bit.

Now if the first distance is too long then it's a caliper retraction issue but it has nothing to do with the rotors. Wear on the rotors is equivalent to wear on the brake pads. The pistons just come out a bit more and stay that way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,587 Posts
Have you still not even rode the bike? Are we still discussing brake lever feel on a bike that sat and is still sitting?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
I measured the thickness on the two front rotors. ~4.2 on both.
They need to be replaced at 4.0mm.

couple of q's.
- could this cause the travel issue / sponginess? Frankly, from my car experience I would say no.

- New OEM rotors are super expensive. What's the best way to get new ones?
The cheapos off of ebay?
Used off of ebay? my problem with this option is who know what condition they would be in.
Hi,

yes the oem are expensive, but in my previous bike GSXR750 i used a chinese company rotors - ARASHI, they performed well, but if u buy used oem,
then u would have to stone grind them, a lengthy procedure

today i am planning to overhaul my calipers, as there is no leak, but will remove the pistons and reassemble them, maybe it help,

i tied the front brake lever for 24 hours, the sponginess reduced, it became Hard, but after few hours it became spongy again, but better than before, even thought i am usings Brembo RCS 19

thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,587 Posts
Check out rogueracing.org for honest, knowledgeable, easy to understand info on all bike related info.

Heres a brake rotor article from the site. There are brake pad articles as well as many other subjects

www.rogueracing.org/zx10r/bremboanswers.htm

and here is the brake pads article

www.rogueracing.org/hrcpads.htm

Of course ALL this info is related to a bike actually being rode and using the brakes and not just squeezing a lever in the garage!!!!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
Discussion Starter #32
Of course ALL this info is related to a bike actually being rode and using the brakes and not just squeezing a lever in the garage!!!!!!
Understood.
It still have a couple of more things to do before its road worthy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,587 Posts
If you installed new brake pads/rotors and/or cleaned your brake rotors I would give it a few rides to allow the pads to bed and transfer brake pad compound to the rotors and then see how it feels.
When first installing new brake pads and removing old brake compound from the rotors I always have a slightly spongy feel and increased lever travel until I bed the pads. Also have alot of pad drag until this is done as well
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
I measured the thickness on the two front rotors. ~4.2 on both.
They need to be replaced at 4.0mm.

couple of q's.
- could this cause the travel issue / sponginess? Frankly, from my car experience I would say no.

- New OEM rotors are super expensive. What's the best way to get new ones?
The cheapos off of ebay?
Used off of ebay? my problem with this option is who know what condition they would be in.
Hi,
i think i have located the spoginess issue, yesteday i overhauled the calipers, i found the dust seals were bent downwards, even though i put some silicon grease on the dust seals initally, also the dust seals were dry when i removed them, last time i changed the seals only, this time i have ordered new pistons and seals together

i think this must have happened when i pushed the pistons inside when i moved from OEM to CL XBK5 pads, the dry part of the pistons outside the calipers must have moved the seals, maybe i will apply silicon spray on the outside dry pistons, before compressing them inside

thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
Discussion Starter #35
Looking through your previous posts, I'm trying to figure out if the mushy feeling or extra travel you describe is before or after the pads are already firmly pushed against the rotor.

#1: If you take the brake lever and gently pull on it until it just starts to feel resistance, is this distance too long for you?

OR

#2: If you take the brake lever at the point of resistance and you squeeze really hard, is this distance too long for you?
Mostly #2. In my opinion, once the resistance is felt, the brake lever shouldn't travel far. In a hydraulic system, the fluid isn't compressable. So once the pads reach the rotor, there shouldn't be much travel.
Of course, there will be some travel because of expansion of the brake lines, but not much.

Here's a video of what's going on with the lever.

https://youtu.be/UapPzQZ2n-4

the normal position is at ~2.5
the brake light switch kicks in at ~2 inches as you can hear
resistance is felt at 1 inch
and there's ~1 inch of spongy travel.

Now.. I had a friend of my stop by the other day who has some sort of a ducati, comparing the feel of my lever to his Duc.
his take was also that my lever feel spongy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
Discussion Starter #36
I took some videos of some brake bleeding today. Given this situation, I think there's something wrong, riding or sitting in a garage. Frankly, I don't know if its safe riding this thing on the street.
let me know if you think other wise.

First video is at the left caliper. I pump the brake lever a few times, hold it, and open the bleed screw.
Look at all those bubbles streaming out. I did this twice. here's the video:
https://youtu.be/m0E6eGBRzAs

second video is at the master cylinder. same thing. Look at the stream of bubbles. On this video, you can hear me pump the brake lever twice before the second time I open the bleeder screw.
https://youtu.be/gBsswffBA0k

I've gone through 1/2 gallon of brake fluid and the stream of bubbles continues.
What could be wrong?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
I took some videos of some brake bleeding today. Given this situation, I think there's something wrong, riding or sitting in a garage. Frankly, I don't know if its safe riding this thing on the street.
let me know if you think other wise.

First video is at the left caliper. I pump the brake lever a few times, hold it, and open the bleed screw.
Look at all those bubbles streaming out. I did this twice. here's the video:
https://youtu.be/m0E6eGBRzAs

second video is at the master cylinder. same thing. Look at the stream of bubbles. On this video, you can hear me pump the brake lever twice before the second time I open the bleeder screw.
https://youtu.be/gBsswffBA0k

I've gone through 1/2 gallon of brake fluid and the stream of bubbles continues.
What could be wrong?
hi,
the second video - i had the same in my MC when i pumped the lever several times, but it stopped later, there must be some micro leak some where in your system

i did complete system overhaul yesterday, except for the RCS 19, this time the results were better, i think there is some play in the caliper seals, they dont fit in snuggly, even after
putting new seals there is some play in the seals,

once u fill up the system, try moving the calipers around and open the bleeder nipple, in my case there were several bubbles comming out, i also tapped the MC, brake lines and caliper to move the bubbles

thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
Discussion Starter #40
To provide an update on this. I'm not totally convinced that there are no issues because I keep seeing bubbles but the test ride went well.

I removed the after market levers and put the OEM back on. the OEMs sit further forward so they don't hit the handle bar at high levels. They do hit the bar at setting of 6 though, which not supposed to.

The bike finally came to a point where I was able to take it out for a spin around the block. The front brake worked OK at the slow pace of back roads. maybe 40-50 miles per hour. Stopped just fine.

I still need to try higher speeds, longer brake duration, and longer riding time to see if the bubbles build up over time and get spongier.

Thanks for all the feedback so far.
 
21 - 40 of 40 Posts
Top