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Discussion Starter #1
I'm 55, heading towards semi-retirement, building a house on a private track, have a few track cars, thinking of a track bike. I've been on motorcycles my whole life but my last sport bike was a 1978 KZ1000 Z1R (and it was only 3 years old when I bought it). Have mostly given up street riding (too dangerous with drivers+cellphones) and most of my recent street riding was on a goldwing. Still ride two wheels 50+ hours per year almost exclusively dirt. My only track experience was 15 years ago at Freddie Spencer's school and a season racing super moto in Utah 13 years ago.

Not going to race, not going to go to other tracks, not going to ride on the street. Want to enjoy mind-bending acceleration and learn how to get my knee on the ground again and just have fun. Plan on attending the YCRS school at Willow Springs to get my feet wet again

I'm attracted to the RR because they are dirty cheap as a left over model and have all the electronics that should help me get comfortable on the track. Non-ABS left-overs are way more available and cheaper than ABS models. Is the ABS just a must have? I have lots of confidence in my brake control (or had) and have not liked ABS on ADV bikes, at least in the dirt.

I plan on getting the OEM quickshift. Any other basic track prep I should think about for this bike? Don't plan on any low sides or off-road excursions but those are some of my most famouse last words.

Thanks for any input.
 

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Track only, I wouldn't personally get ABS. I only prefer it for the street for "surprises." I'd probably buy cheap track plastics.

Others here get out to the track a lot more so will have some good tips for you.
 

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Ok. If you are willing to accept the advice, I can steer on the correct path to create an extremely track capable SC77.

What is your budget and build time frame?
What is your mechanical and technical capability?
How far from stock tire, gearing do you plan to deviate?

Welcome to the SC77 family.

p.s. I may sound a little cynical but I have consulted with a few SC77 based track efforts and the only ones that run into frustrating quirks and issues are the ones that don't take the advice.

You see that unsuccessful Yates campaign in MotoAmerica? That's the result of old school stubbornness and refusing to take advice as given.

Track only, I wouldn't personally get ABS. I only prefer it for the street for "surprises." I'd probably buy cheap track plastics.

Others here get out to the track a lot more so will have some good tips for you.
My reasoning for not using an ABS bike as a base would be for a completely different reason.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I don't really have a budget. I'm pretty good mechanically, I founded a company many years ago making products for off road bikes. That said, my dirt bikes are usually close to stock except for ergonomics and my own products. Don't get a big kick out of building the ultimate anything, just good stuff that makes a difference for my use.

Good auto-blip is super important to me. WhenI took the Freddie Spencer school doing that well really distracted from the rest of the learning experience. My track cars have it and allow me to focus on doing other things well. Can also be a big safety thing imo because messing it up can have big consequences.

Other than that I love the sound of a good exhaust though I know it will not make me any faster.

Ergonomics are important because I'm 6'3" and my lower back is ruined from being bent over working on motorcycles for the past 20 years (lots of field clutch work on dirt bikes).

Have no idea what I should be running for tires or gearing.

Hope to get comfortable getting a knee down on the ground, a bit of slide coming out of corners and the front tire off the ground a small amount under acceleration all while keeping the rubber side down.
 

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I don't really have a budget. I'm pretty good mechanically, I founded a company many years ago making products for off road bikes. That said, my dirt bikes are usually close to stock except for ergonomics and my own products. Don't get a big kick out of building the ultimate anything, just good stuff that makes a difference for my use.

Good auto-blip is super important to me. WhenI took the Freddie Spencer school doing that well really distracted from the rest of the learning experience. My track cars have it and allow me to focus on doing other things well. Can also be a big safety thing imo because messing it up can have big consequences.

Other than that I love the sound of a good exhaust though I know it will not make me any faster.

Ergonomics are important because I'm 6'3" and my lower back is ruined from being bent over working on motorcycles for the past 20 years (lots of field clutch work on dirt bikes).

Have no idea what I should be running for tires or gearing.

Hope to get comfortable getting a knee down on the ground, a bit of slide coming out of corners and the front tire off the ground a small amount under acceleration all while keeping the rubber side down.
This is the right frame of mind.

I would not have "ultimate" build in mind, just the most competent within the scope of the bike you choose as the base to build on and the base SC77 is the best choice over all.
Not because ABS is not track worthy, but the none ABS harness lends itself to some other feature enhancements that the ABS/SP/SP2 wiring harness do not.

This leaves quite a few paths open for the direction you go in. There are a couple options that depending on your current skill level and the level of improvement you see will really determine how well the bike will work over time and whether you will grow inot the bike or grow frustrated with the biike.

As just one example - the Torque Management and Autoblipper/QS are affected by gearing and tire changes, no matter how loudly you will hear people claim otherwise - whether you experience these anomalies or not is directly dependent on just how fast and talented you are.

Folks often step from stock tires and sprockets to bigger tires and different sprockets at the same time AND the tires are normally stickier by a huge margin and they may have never even pushed the stock geared bike to step out, slide and otherwise make calls on the Torque Management system, so they then think the Torque Management is not affected by these tire and gearing changes.

When in fact they may not able to push these aggressively sticky tires to point of breaking traction so they believe all is well - then as their talent increases and they do push the tires, the day they get the big slide on the Torque Management system may either respond too late or not at all.

The SC77 is a very complex but logical platform. You just have to know how to extract the functional performance from it.
 

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. . . Hope to get comfortable getting a knee down on the ground, a bit of slide coming out of corners and the front tire off the ground a small amount under acceleration all while keeping the rubber side down.
Not too sure whether that should be a focal point for track/race riders. The emphasis should be on decreasing lap times based on bike set up and body position evaluation. From there, style will evolve.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Not too sure whether that should be a focal point for track/race riders. The emphasis should be on decreasing lap times based on bike set up and body position evaluation. From there, style will evolve.
I'm sure it should be my focal point. I've got nothing to prove to anybody, no plans to race, just out to enjoy my time on the track.
 

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I'm sure it should be my focal point. I've got nothing to prove to anybody, no plans to race, just out to enjoy my time on the track.
I think nigelrb was trying to get the point across that "dragging a knee" is one of the biproducts of proper body position, techniques, corner entry speed and braking and not a goal that one should set for many reasons
There are plenty very good riders, even at the track, that do not drag their knee even while blowing by other riders that do
 

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I think nigelrb was trying to get the point across that "dragging a knee" is one of the biproducts of proper body position, techniques, corner entry speed and braking and not a goal that one should set for many reasons
There are plenty very good riders, even at the track, that do not drag their knee even while blowing by other riders that do


To illustrate the point :p

Just saying, proper technique is a good goal while "dragging knee" by itself is not. I'm sure you meant that you want to race well and build skill, no harm meant.
 

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Well the point of getting off the bike is so you do NOT have to lean it over as much.

I would rather get off the bike and keep it more upright than try "touch my chin to the mirror" putting all the weight forward thereby forcing me to HAVE to lean over to maintain a given level of grip at speed.

All you're doing is moving the center of gravity.
 

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Sure, a leftover bike is cheap. But used bikes are even cheaper.
I wouldn't get a 17+ because of the electronics. F all that noise. Just take your time. Your not gonna throw yourself or crash at a trackday being relaxed and working your way faster. Your not a kid and shouldn't be a hothead.
 

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Get an Sp1 or SP2. I am 63 and have a lot of bikes. I wanted something with a complete ECU based electronics setup. Got the 17 SP1 and have to say it is a very easy bike to track. Much more forgiving than my Ducati or Aprilia. You will need to get the ECU reflashed to eliminate the 70% throttle restriction. Bullet prof bike. Only disappointment is that the front brake master cylinder isn’t the best. Get the Bonamici Rear set with GP shift and their case sliders.

Get an Sp1 or SP2. I am 63 and have a lot of bikes. I wanted something with a complete ECU based electronics setup. Got the 17 SP1 and have to say it is a very easy bike to track. Much more forgiving than my Ducati or Aprilia. You will need to get the ECU reflashed to eliminate the 70% throttle restriction. Bullet prof bike. Only disappointment is that the front brake master cylinder isn’t the best. Get the Bonamici Rear set with GP shift and their case sliders

Is your new home at the Thermal track?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
New home is at Spring Mountain.

I am also looking at a track-only '16 RSV4 RF with 2k miles on it that is setup nicely. Sounds like the electronics on that vintage RSV4 RF were good but not great and also a bit finicky. Still leaning towards the Honda. A few thousand more $, more bolt-ons to do but probably a better package for what I want to do and more reliable?
 

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Those aprillias are pretty sweet. As far as electronics the aprillia is probably just as good as the cbr if not better, from what I've read, and you get that noise and power.

The cbr is substantially lighter, therefore easier to flick around the track.

If spring mountain is tight, advantage cbr, if a very fast track, advantage aprillia
 

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New home is at Spring Mountain.

I am also looking at a track-only '16 RSV4 RF with 2k miles on it that is setup nicely. Sounds like the electronics on that vintage RSV4 RF were good but not great and also a bit finicky. Still leaning towards the Honda. A few thousand more $, more bolt-ons to do but probably a better package for what I want to do and more reliable?
I also have an Aprilia rsv4 RF. Mine is a 2018. It is heavier but more powerful. I do find that I get more tired at the end of lap sessions due to the weight. I saw a new 2018 Honda SP for $14.5k online. Honda is lighter, has full imu based electronics package, and is a nice and very forgiving track bike. Power is less than the Ape but with a reflash to remove the throttle restriction, it is closer to the Ape’s power. Ape is powerful and handles great but service is more limited and it is heavy. Another option for you would be to find a nice Ducati 899. I also have one and it is a nice track bike that handles quite well and is light but still has reasonable power. You can find them used for a reasonable price.
 

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I have available the ultimate track day SC77 if y'all want.

$47,000 USD (give or take depending on exchange rate) + shipping to the US. Includes spares and refreshed motor.
Full Magneti Marelli electronics including license.

Let me know if you're interested.

 

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Discussion Starter #17
I also have an Aprilia rsv4 RF. Mine is a 2018. It is heavier but more powerful. I do find that I get more tired at the end of lap sessions due to the weight. I saw a new 2018 Honda SP for $14.5k online. Honda is lighter, has full imu based electronics package, and is a nice and very forgiving track bike. Power is less than the Ape but with a reflash to remove the throttle restriction, it is closer to the Ape’s power. Ape is powerful and handles great but service is more limited and it is heavy. Another option for you would be to find a nice Ducati 899. I also have one and it is a nice track bike that handles quite well and is light but still has reasonable power. You can find them used for a reasonable price.
Thanks for that feedback on the RSV4. I have also seen a nice 899 for a little less than the RSV4 I am looking at. A new left-over 2018 CBR1000RR is going to be + $3K over the RSV4 or + $4K over the 899. Hmmmm.
 

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I just looked up the Spring Mountain facility. Wow! All of the various layouts look to be technical. Even the 6 mile Andretti layout. So I would mix the Ape strictly for weight. The Honda SP weight wise feels more like a mid-size bike since it has a titanium exhaust, titanium tank, and lithium battery. The Ducati has respectable power, especially down low. It will be the best handling bike because it has a 180/60 rear tire. So my recommendation for your track would be either:

Ducati 899 but invest in a set of carbon fiber wheels. It completely transformed the bike!!! Stock wheels are very heavy. This is a must!!! Then get a lithium battery and a Termi exhaust. Lightening the 899 up will make it even more responsive. And of course, get rear sets for GP shift. Last, change the rear shock out for an Ohlins. It makes a huge diff. Showa BPF is ok up front.

2017+ Honda CBR sp. I would get the SP because by the time you pay for an Ohlins set of shocks and an up and down blipper, you already spent the dollars for the diff between the standard rr and the sp. this bike just needs a reflash to get full 100% throttle and a rear set for GP shift.

I was at Pittrace the day after MotoAmerica and my racer buddy Chris Lilligard stayed over and rode with us. His bikes were already on their way to the next race so he rode one of mine. We each switched off between the Honda SP and the Duc 899. He loved them both. Thought the Duc was like a scalpel and thought the Honda was fast yet forgiving. I asked him which bike he would pick if he had to pick just 1. He was very undecided but went with the Honda for power, reliability, and ease of service.

you can’t go wrong with either. Don’t let your wallet make the decision. Pick the bike that speaks loudest to you. or, do what I did and buy the Duc, Honda, and Ape! Lol

if you invite me up I will bring my Ape and you can check it out. I will be at INDE and APEX in Az this winter.

good luck!
 

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Thanks for that feedback on the RSV4. I have also seen a nice 899 for a little less than the RSV4 I am looking at. A new left-over 2018 CBR1000RR is going to be + $3K over the RSV4 or + $4K over the 899. Hmmmm.
Sounds like with all the $ you’ve got from your business, you could easily afford all 3 bikes. You can’t go wrong all-around wt the SC77, lite, short wheelbase, potent, superb handling and brakes.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Sounds like with all the $ you’ve got from your business, you could easily afford all 3 bikes. You can’t go wrong all-around wt the SC77, lite, short wheelbase, potent, superb handling and brakes.
Problem is I have lots of expensive habits so I'm going to start with only one track bike!

I picked a new 2018 SC77. $12K OTD plus shipping and local tax (if I choose to register). In the end, getting a new bike with warranty and Honda reliability was key. I can add all the track stuff as I go along. Going to the YCRS school in 3 weeks to get started. Looking forward to getting back on the track on 2 wheels!
 
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