So far, every vehicle (car or motorcycle) manuals which I have read has the manufacturer's recommended tire pressure. (See another example from the 2006 CBR1000RR manual).

In the case of the 2018 SP, it just so happen that Honda's recommendation is the same as the Max for that tire under a certain load.

What Max are we talking here?
Every time there is a Max listed, it is associated with 2 parameters {air pressure, weight (or load)}. I have seen many times on the older BMW cars door jam stickers a list of recommended air pressures that is dependent on the weight you are carrying. If the load is heavier, the air pressure recommendations goes up. There is a limit for that tire size. That limit is the Max e.g. {42 psi, 858 lbs weight}.

That does not mean the Honda's recommendation for 42 psi is wrong if the weight (load) you are carrying is less than 858lbs because Honda is also considering these factors:

1. longevity (due to a good wear pattern)
2. MPG
3. safety (an under-inflated tire is more likely to hydroplane when you hit a patch of water than a properly inflated tire based on factory recommendations)

The above 3 factors were explained in the attached Honda Owner's Manual ... again.

Lastly, high performance bike owners, like us, tend to focus too much on performance (the fun factor) and place the other 3 factors as low priority factors. That's fine, you are free to do whatever you want with your life and with your bike. Just don't preach it like it is the infallible gospel, like Dave Moss did, because you are a mere mortal and mortals are fallible. And, you are not even the manufacturer of the bike, for God's sake. So, stop telling everyone that the Owner's manuals in all cars and bikes are wrong. And, that tire pressures have no effects on longevity and MPG ????

Yes, I agree that the Owner's Manual recommendation may not give you the optimal performance based on the 6 Dave Moss factors which he listed in his video (without a a solution until you pay him). But, how many of us are track riders that ride our CBRs at 120MPH with lean angles that scrape our knees? I would safely say the majority of the owners don't. So, the paid-DaveMoss solution is optimal but the Owner's Manual is not wrong because those Owner's Manuals have the weight & the credibility of all the motorcycle & car manufacturers put together. Who is Dave Moss, who has never designed nor manufactured a single motorcycle in his life or whoever else who claims and talks like he is the infallible God?

Someone once mentioned (in some previous thread) that it's the way it was asked that raises the question; perhaps, I should draw a parallel line to say that it is the way that information was presented (like it came from God) that is questionable, when it is just an opinion. Opinions are fine, all of us has one, just like the navel on our belly. If it's opinion, say it like an opinion, not like God Himself is talking. That's way too much self-inflation (pun intended).

 

It's all a compromise. Choose the one that best suits your specific needs/riding style. The manual recommendation is one size fits all. Fine for a stating point (like suspension settings) but should not be taken as some kind of gospel IMO

 

I don't think anyone ever suggested that Honda is wrong - after all, how could one accept what the max inflated operating pressure is, if they didn't accept max values provided by Honda as being correct? There is a camp that is of the states the values offered by the manufacturer are simply max recommended and nothing more.

If these pressures are not the max inflated pressures - What then is the maximum safe inflated operating pressure of a motorcycle tire and where is that information indicated if not on the sidewall or owners manual?

As an aside, I don't think I recall anyone have it in for Dave Moss this hard before, did he stiff you out of $20 at some point?

 

As an aside, I don't think I recall anyone have it in for Dave Moss this hard before, did he stiff you out of $20 at some point?

@artthury
Art.. now that you've settle in the forum a bit .. what's your beef with D. Moss?

 

If you believe 36f/42r is right for you then run those pressures. If you wanna buy into this recommended pressure being the "correct pressure" for everyone, in all situations, on every brand/type of tire then that's on you.

There is a procedure and a process to set correct tire pressures for YOU and it's based on actual measurable variables and results but if you think the safety net motorcycle manufacturers recommendation is an absolute then it's not worth having the discussion with you in the first place.

For the rest of us that have been on bikes for decades, have run different tires on different bikes, and who understand and have gone through the process of setting tire pressures based on tire wear, grip, feedback, and feel then I need say no more to this group as we very well know 36f/42r isn't optimal for any condition.

 

So the Bridgestone S22 is a sport bike tire with a max pressure rating of 42 psi. Does any bike manufacturer recommend a max pressure of 42 psi for the front on a sport bike? If not, why would Bridgestone use 42 psi as max pressure on a sport bike front tire?

 

I don’t believe the front is recommended at 42. My bike does not have that tire, but mine is recommended at 36. My Ninja 1000SX came with the S22 and they recommend 36/42.

 

Gee, I might have to apologise for re-igniting this thread!!

 

Opened up pandora’s box didn’t you, lol 😂

 

The owners manual also states to shift every ten miles per hour so at 50mph you would be in 6th gear.
Anyone following this Honda operating procedure?
I'm never higher than second gear til I hit the expressways

 

The entire point of the original post was how to determine optimum tire pressure.

I get that less experienced or knowledgeable riders would have questions on why deviate from the Honda recommended settings but it's been explained many times over in this thread and countless others prior.

The owners manual has suspension settings as well. Same as the tire pressures they are just a starting point. No two riders, skill level, and situations are the same which is why there is a standard procedure to determine "correct" or optimum tire pressures and suspension settings.

Both Honda and the tire manufacturers have federal testing, guidelines, and liability issues to take into account when stating settings and operating procedures.

 

...I get that less experienced or knowledgeable riders would have questions on why deviate from the Honda recommended settings but it's been explained many times over in this thread and countless others......

The problem is that when tire pressure recommendations are explained in plain terms, it goes right over some people's heads and the some people won't be swayed from their original ignorant question... All done with this thread now.

 

To address the question of a big heavy two up bike having the same pressure as a lighter but faster bike, it's all about heat. Heat is the enemy in tires. You have to manage the heat to keep it optimal for the tires useage and design.

What causes heat in a tire? To simplify as much as possible, prolonged speed and/or weight. A Pan Euro might be loaded up with 500 lbs of people and luggage. A CBR 1000 might see 180 + MPH. Does it all make sense when looking at it that way?

 

Remember folks we're talking about Tire Pressure for the Street. Pretty sure anyone asking for recommendations is not aggressively late trail braking nor aggressively accelerating at maximum lean angles. If you want the best compromise between handling and tire life on the street, then follow the manufacturer's recommendation.

 

Remember folks we're talking about Tire Pressure for the Street. Pretty sure anyone asking for recommendations is not aggressively late trail braking nor aggressively accelerating at maximum lean angles. If you want the best compromise between handling and tire life on the street, then follow the manufacturer's recommendation.

Sorry but this is just not true.

 

Regardless or whether daily commuting or track riding tires are there for traction and grip to the road. This is a vital for safety.

Forget about high speed cornering or dragging knee but imagine panic braking on a less than optimal set up tire for grip! Hitting a spot of gravel, water, oil, or tar snakes.
In order for a tire to perform at an optimal designed level they need heat and the correct amount.
This is what you are optimizing when you change tire pressures, that and contact patch size (which is what determines how much heat is put into the tires), feedback, and feel.

Pro teams and track day enthusiasts will use the ideal method of measuring tire temp with an IR temperature gun. They strive to achieve the exact tire temp the tire manufacturer designates as optimal operating temp
A less accurate but widely recognized as an acceptable method of determining the amount of heat put into a tire is by comparing cold to hot tire pressures.

Those running 36f/42r I would ask you to check your cold tire pressure and immediately after a ride again check (hot) tire pressure. I would bet you are only getting a few psi increase hot compared to cold. 4-5 psi is optimal for tire performance (as a general rule of thumb for most sport bike tires)
If you are getting less than 4-5 psi increase than you have too small a contact patch and need to reduce tire pressure. More than 5 psi and you have too large a contact patch and need to increase tire pressure.

Another less accurate but considered acceptable method for the street is the 10/20 method. You want to see a 10% increase in psi on the front and a 20% increase on the rear.
This method is considered the best compromise in tire performance vs wear and safety on a street bike as it takes into account riding style, type of bike, rider skill level and weight, ambient temp, road temp, speed, etc.

This information and methods are not my opinion, a theory, or some shit I made up. It's the way every tire manufacturer, pro race team, or anyone who is knowledgeable in tire pressures and performance set tire pressure. Of course there are slight variances to setting tire pressure based on individual use, needs, and skill levels but this is the industry standard.

 

Just to add that higher tire pressure actually reduces hydroplaning.

 

That makes sense on a car with a much larger contact patch per tire, much wider tires, tires being flat vs rounded, and 4 tires making contact at the same time.
Not sure it applies to a sport bike tire.
Ever notice the tread on your front tire is opposite or "backwards" compared to the rear tire?
This is for traction while braking since the front tire does almost all the braking on a sport bike
Can't be good for water distribution and removal in a wet enough situation to hydroplane can it?

 

About hydroplaning it is pretty intuitive that a smaller contact patch is less likely to ride on top of the water.

I don't ride my cbr in the rain though, and if I did, I would adjust my tire pressures accordingly for that ride and then put them back to where they should be for a warm dry day 😉

 

Hydroplaning is an effect of the tire tread not being able to move water out from under the tire fast enough which allows a layer of water between the entire tire contact patch and the driving surface. The wider the tires the more likely they will hydroplane due to more water to move out of the contact patch area.
Street bike tires really don't come into play in this scenario, at least to no where near the extent of a car tire. Speed also plays a huge factor in a hydroplaning scenario and although most of us may drive too fast in the rain while behind the wheel of a car most will not on a sport bike

 

I don't know who's dumber. Honda, or the folks that buy their products?

 

Attached is the page for Tire pressure straight out of the SC77 Honda Owner's Manual.
No word such as "Max" or "load" or "weight".
So, let's not put words in Honda's mouth.

 

Which is based on the max load capacity also listed in the same manual.
No one with any sort of intelligence can believe one specific set of tire pressure settings can be best/optimal/correct for every model year CBR, every rider, every scenerio, every road, every temperature ever.
If the recommended tire pressure settings from Honda were not a "one setting for every situation safety recommendation" as most of us suggest than why wouldn't they list different pressures for different rider weights, passengers, street vs track, ambient temperatures, etc?
You can't truly believe this is a set in stone setting best for everyone, period! I have to believe you have more smarts than this and are just looking to argue and prove yourself right

 

Dunlop recommends 36/42 psi for front/rear , respectively, for their Q3+ tires.

 

Same thing with Dunlop Q4 (which is meant more for track)

 

Yup, 36 front, 42 rear is pretty standard for Sport and Sport/Touring street tires. I'm sure it's a conspiracy among motorcycle and motorcycle tire manufacturers to sell more tires.

 

This is why I run recommended cold tire pressure for the street:

On my 2017 CBR1000S1 I just got 4,153 miles out of a BATTLAX HYPERSPORT S21 Rear. Now, on a section of the tire in the center it's starting to flake which happens just before cords start to show, so the center is toast.

In Houston I have to ride at least 40 miles one way on straight major highways just to meet my buddies so we can find some country roads with some sweet turns. So, my center always wears early.

 

Good data point for the records.

 

I always record tire mileage on the new tire invoices.

 

were you running on the steel belt? with lot's of flying sparks

 

Now, on a section of the tire in the center it's starting to flake which happens just before cords start to show, so the center is toast.

 

Yep accessible through the circuit dash mode and lap timer functionality. I only found out about it reading through the owners manual. Stores other neat stuff like max water temp, max rpm, max speed, Max G forces etc. Sometimes I use it for canyon riding just for fun. Kind of "squidly" I know but it could be useful to see if for example with new tires I am actually leaning the bike more on the same roads or if it's just placebo.

 

If you use the lap timer it stores max performance data for later recall via the Dash Menu.
Don't forget about the 17's

Whaaaaat? Thanks for that. Had no clue. 😂

 

For commuting I've always run 36F and 41R. On my F4i that's averaged 14,000 miles from front tires and 9500 miles from rear tires, always either Michelin pilot something [power, 2ct, pures] or Dunlop Q3's.
On my 1k with Q3+'s that's averaging 8k rear miles so far, haven't actually worn it out yet.

Canyon and track riding I lower the pressure, to what depends on the tire and intensity of the ride that day.

 

I use 36 front and rear cold pressure. 190 lbs rider living in Thailand. I have used 42 in the rear but with the road temps so high it just felt better going with 36.