Titanium bolt weight

17821 Views 288 Replies 22 Participants Last post by Rusa, 1 d ago

John Harris

Discussion Starter · Nov 5, 2020

Don't know if anyone is interested but I just received my Front caliper Titanium bolts and weighed them vs stock steel for a 17 SP. Titanium is 24 grams vs stock steel 33 grams. So a reduction of 44 grams or 1.5 oz. Not much but then I am going for corrosion resistance and shine (bling).
I will be receiving front and rear rotor bolts and sprocket nuts in Titanium and will post their weights.

Now if I can just get accurate weight of the stock SP rims with bearing only then I can decide if I want the Marchesini Magnesium wheels.

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09_Blade

· #221 · 1 mo ago

IMA is very light. Stem is included, offset is adjustable, and it uses OEM bearings and races.

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Deleting the ignition lock would save even more weight off the front end. One of the OEM lock nuts has a heavy flange on it, and that will be replaced with a light aluminum ring from the kit.

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Ces One

· #222 · 1 mo ago

09_Blade said:
IMA is very light. Stem is included, offset is adjustable, and it uses OEM bearings and races.
View attachment 267399

Deleting the ignition lock would save even more weight off the front end. One of the OEM lock nuts has a heavy flange on it, and that will be replaced with a light aluminum ring from the kit.
View attachment 267400

I have the IMA titanium clip ons, but went with Bonamici aluminum triple clamp.
Just the top though.
I sure wish I would have known about this complete set up first! This looks amazing. I
can attest that IMA is incredibly high-quality and very good people as well.
If you decide to contacr IMA in Italy directly, ask for Patrick. Tell him CES sent you.
For your consideration, they do not really speak English…

John Harris

Discussion Starter · #223 · 1 mo ago

I also have the Bonamici upper triple clamp so won't be replacing it, too bad I didn't know about the IMA also, oh well.
So the machine shop got back to me with shipping cost, it is $221 for the lot, premium carrier since the parts are so expensive and since the total cost is over $2500 there will probably be import duties. When I bought a Koetsu Rosewood Signature Phono cartridge for $2600 from Japan it cost me $50 in duties fees.

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John Harris

Discussion Starter · #224 · 1 mo ago

Tonight I pulled the right side fairing and removed the upper engine hanger bolt and the spacer. The spacer on the 2017-22 is aluminum, so that is good. The bolt is a M12x50x1.25, steel, and weighs 58 grams, so I will lose 2 ounces with the two bolts. The stock steel bolts are really ugly, the threads are not clean, the end not smooth, definitely need quality titanium bolts.

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Ces One

· #225 · 1 mo ago

John Harris said:
I also have the Bonamici upper triple clamp so won't be replacing it, too bad I didn't know about the IMA also, oh well.
So the machine shop got back to me with shipping cost, it is $221 for the lot, premium carrier since the parts are so expensive and since the total cost is over $2500 there will probably be import duties. When I bought a Koetsu Rosewood Signature Phono cartridge for $2600 from Japan it cost me $50 in duties fees.

@John Harris
This means either you or your fab shop are not in the US?

John Harris

Discussion Starter · #226 · 30 d ago

The machine shop is in Guangzhou. I am back in the US for the past 13 years, spent 5 months living in Guangzhou, China working as an electrical engineer and training techs on installation of some networking equipment. Met my wife there. Guangzhou is like the manufacturing capitol of China, it is a huge city, with some old businesses and some very modern and high tech. I have dealt with this shop, Runsom, many times, they make extremely high quality items from the best materials, according to your specs. The fact that they have a vacuum chamber furnace for heat treating material speaks volumes for the aerospace quality as that tech is not cheap. It is one of the few shops I know and trust to make something I would stake my life on. These parts will be made with quality Grade 5 titanium, over engineered for strength, and heat treated with the best process for strength and durability. And I will be doing a final quality check on finish and dimensions. So now you know most about the parts. I can send you the CAD files if you are interested, you can find a free DXF reader on the web to view them. Before ordering parts I will be doing a final check of the drawings for dimensions and checking that any step has a proper radius/fillet to prevent any stress points.

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Ces One

· #227 · 30 d ago (Edited)

DannoXYZ said:
It's strength-to-weight we're after and they're actually similar with slight advantage to ti. A same-sized piece of steel will be about twice as stiff and twice as strong but weigh little more than twice as much than same-sized piece of titanium. So a 10x1mm bolt in titanium will weigh about 1/2 of steel, but have about 1/2 the strength and stiffness.

This is why you want to design with material's properties in mind with oversizing part to increase stiffness and strength while removing thickness. Kinda like aluminium bicycle frames compared to steel. So an axle made from ti should be larger in diameter to increase strength & stiffness to match smaller item in steel.

4130's chromoly's stiffness is 205 GPa vs 6/4 titanium's 114 GPa. For same loads, titanium will bend almost twice as much. That's why he's increasing axle's thickness to account for ti's lower stiffness & strength. It will still be lighter than steel with less stiffness & strength, but more than enough for loads involved.

Titanium's main benefit is high fatigue resistance. It can take more SN-cycles of same loads as steel and it won't crack as soon.

@John Harris & DanosXYZ
please tell me,
I just ordered titanium nuts and bolts from RaceTech Titanium for my 2022 Honda CBR1000RR ABS. These three nuts and bolts secure the rear suspension linkage brackets and dog bone to the bike.
Are these titanium bolts & nuts strong enough to safely replace the oem steel hardware ?
Please advise
One picture shows the OEM hardware next to the new titanium hardware inside the plastic bag.
Btw the oem nut and bolt weigh 61.6g each and the titanium are 27.2g each.
Not bad !

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Ces One

· #228 · 30 d ago

John Harris said:
The machine shop is in Guangzhou. I am back in the US for the past 13 years, spent 5 months living in Guangzhou, China working as an electrical engineer and training techs on installation of some networking equipment. Met my wife there. Guangzhou is like the manufacturing capitol of China, it is a huge city, with some old businesses and some very modern and high tech. I have dealt with this shop, Runsom, many times, they make extremely high quality items from the best materials, according to your specs. The fact that they have a vacuum chamber furnace for heat treating material speaks volumes for the aerospace quality as that tech is not cheap. It is one of the few shops I know and trust to make something I would stake my life on. These parts will be made with quality Grade 5 titanium, over engineered for strength, and heat treated with the best process for strength and durability. And I will be doing a final quality check on finish and dimensions. So now you know most about the parts. I can send you the CAD files if you are interested, you can find a free DXF reader on the web to view them. Before ordering parts I will be doing a final check of the drawings for dimensions and checking that any step has a proper radius/fillet to prevent any stress points.

Thank you for this reply. I don’t need to see any CAD designs, thank you.
I resourced some grade 5 Titanium hardware manufacturing in Xi’an last year.
I’m very pleased with the end product. Anodized and everything.
I would like to proceed with ordering an axle or axles, through you, when possible.
Cheers
here’s pics of my Ti banjo bolts

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John Harris

Discussion Starter · #229 · 30 d ago

I recently replaced the upper rear shock mount bolt and the three at the bottom. Some where back in this thread you will see that. They are definitely strong enough for the job. I haven't replaced the allen head bolt at the inner end of the dog bone link yet, will get to that one eventually.

Also did all the brake bolts early on, worth doing.

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DannoXYZ

· #230 · 30 d ago

Ces One said:
@John Harris & DanosXYZ
please tell me,
I just ordered titanium nuts and bolts from RaceTech Titanium for my 2022 Honda CBR1000RR ABS. These three nuts and bolts secure the rear suspension linkage brackets and dog bone to the bike.
Are these titanium bolts & nuts strong enough to safely replace the oem steel hardware ?
Please advise
One picture shows the OEM hardware next to the new titanium hardware inside the plastic bag.
Btw the oem nut and bolt weigh 61.6g each and the titanium are 27.2g each.
Not bad !

Yeah, more than sufficient. 👋

Reactions: 1

Ces One

· #231 · 30 d ago

John Harris said:
I recently replaced the upper rear shock mount bolt and the three at the bottom. Some where back in this thread you will see that. They are definitely strong enough for the job. I haven't replaced the allen head bolt at the inner end of the dog bone link yet, will get to that one eventually.
Also did all the brake bolts early on, worth doing.

Awesome news!
Thanks so much.
This is my second motorcycle, that I have gone titanium and aerospace aluminum crazy with. Replacing almost every nut and bolt on the machines. But this 22 CBR probably has the most titanium yet.
You and I have that obsession in common.

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Ces One

· #232 · 30 d ago

DannoXYZ said:
Yeah, more than sufficient. 👋

Thanks very much!

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John Harris

Discussion Starter · #233 · 30 d ago (Edited)

For amount of titanium parts we have nothing on Rusa. 🤣

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John Harris

Discussion Starter · #234 · 29 d ago (Edited)

Last night I measured the allen head cap bolt for the inner end of the dog bone suspension link and ordered one in titanium, and the nut. It is a M10x1.25x85mm; had to buy a 90mm long and will trim it's length. While I was in the area I looked at the other rear engine mount bolts, which are through bolts and would be a custom turning so skipping them for now.

I have looked at replacing the suspension dog bone link with an aftermarket piece but the ones I have seen don't look strong enough for the position. I then thought about some strategic holes in the dog bone link to lighten it without compromising its strength much. Will experiment, but probably only worth an ounce in weight loss.

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Ces One

· #235 · 29 d ago

John Harris said:
Last night I measured the allen head cap bolt for the inner end of the dog bone suspension link and ordered one in titanium, and the nut. It is a M10x1.25x85mm; had to buy a 90mm long and will trim it's length. While I was in the area I looked at the other rear engine mount bolts, which are through bolts and would be a custom turning so skipping them for now.

I have looked at replacing the suspension dog bone link with an aftermarket piece but the ones I have seen don't look strong enough for the position. I then thought about some strategic holes in the dog bone link to lighten it without compromising its strength much. Will experiment, but probably only worth an ounce in weight loss.

I was just hunting the same part.
I couldn’t confirm the dog bones I found from Vortex Racing fit the SC-77 bike, yet.
Even after speaking with them.

John Harris

Discussion Starter · #236 · 29 d ago

And I just purchased a used stock dog bone suspension link for a big $15. Got my piece to experiment on.

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Ces One

· #237 · 29 d ago

John Harris said:
And I just purchased a used stock dog bone suspension link for a big $15. Got my piece to experiment on.

Same thing I’m doing with some OEM linkage brackets.

CBR-SP

· #238 · 28 d ago

Note that when I replaced the spring (110Nm to 100Nm) on my stock (Ohlins) rear shock, the flat side linkages had way too much side play (~3mm) such that they would rub against the main link to the frame. I measured and ordered some 0.5mm shims to adjust the side play down to ~1mm. None of my other bikes have such a large amount of side play.

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John Harris

Discussion Starter · #239 · 27 d ago

Interesting, the triangular plates that link the rear shock to the link have absolutely no play on my bike, tight and rigid. The titanium bolts I bought for the linkage were about 5mm too long and I tried to cut them shorter with a hack saw, no way, after a few diffent tool attempts I found I could grind them down or use an abrasive wheel to cut them and it will take several disks to go through a 10mm bolt. Titanium is freaking strong. Also when you grind steel you get yellowish sparks, with titanium you get very white sparks. Cool.

Replaced the upper engine hanger bolts, lost a little more than an ounces and a half.

The suspension bolt and the dog bone link will be here Tuesday so I will modify it and install, will be interesting to see how much weight can be lost in a no cost mod.

Finished double checking all dimensions on the parts to have machined. Right now I am looking at the specs that a machine shop would use to specify the surface finish of titanium, probably uses Ra, same as steel and aluminum but want to be sure.

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John Harris

Discussion Starter · #240 · 25 d ago (Edited)

Today I received a reply to my message to the machine shop, they do use Ra as the surface finish spec and the current pricing is using 0.8 Ra micrometers which is very smooth bearing surface. After measuring the wheel bearing internal diameters a third time I put a maximum diameter spec on the axles and swingarm pivot as well as a minimum diameter. Something interesting, the stock axles are far from round, measuring around the axle at different point shows about a .006" out of roundness.

Also I weighed the stock dog bone rear suspension link with the needle bearing and seals but without the through spacers, and it weighes 332.5 grams. So I drilled 5 holes through the bone starting in the center, worked up to 1/2" holes, then the next 2 holes out are 9/16", couldn't find my 5/8" bit to do the outer most holes larger. These are small enough to not compromise the strength much, the link is far stronger than it needs to be. That removed just over 3/4 of an ounce with its new weight at 310 grams. I will ride with it like this for a while then enlarge the holes.
And a pic:

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