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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Given the price of the new RR-R SP ($28,500 plus freight $450) vs. Ducati's V4S ($28,395 plus freight of $550) the decision between the two is difficult!

So I have pretty much all the current bikes available and I have ridden them all on a race track, except the RR-R SP which will happen THIS Friday at Chuckwalla - report to follow in another thread - what I can tell you from my experience is the following....

The power of the V4S is more impressive than the RR-R SP, however the fork on the SP is better than the V4S and I would say the front end confidence is better on the RR-R SP but the sex-appeal is better with the V4S and it has nicer forged wheels, the braking equipment and feel are the same, the tires are the same. The exhaust prices are quite different. Where Ducati provides a turn-key full Akrapovic solution with mapping for about $5,500 (plus tax and install), Honda provides NO solution at this time (10.13.2020) and this makes the power difference between the two models even more significant, also the drive out of the corner is better with the V4S. Akrapovic does make a nice slip-on that requires no mapping changes that makes a small improvement in terms of weight-savings and additional torque.

NOW, there are ways around the drive issue....I have changed gearing to 15/44 from 16/43 and this has helped but to get the most from the Honda you have to carry more entry and mid corner roll speed and that NPX fork on the RR-R SP vs. NIX30 on the Ducati REALLY helps with this. The chassis and fork conspire to give the rider great confidence and as a rider coach and racer for a couple of decades now I have noticed that without SOLID reference points for braking and LOTS of practice MOST people are not really very fast on FAST 1000cc bikes, think S1000RR, and the smoothness of the RR-R power doesn't overwhelm the rider. What I mean by this is, imagine you are exiting a corner and the sense of acceleration is SO great that you subconsciously think, "SHIT! I'VE GOTTA GET THIS THING SLOWED DOWN!" What happens is the rider brakes TOO EARLY and parks it in the corner. It is my opinion that most riders on the RR-R SP will be better on the stop watch than the V4S platform for this exact reason. Now in the hands of a seasoned professional, things may be different but for MOST riders the Honda will be better and also penalize you more if you don't ride it the way it needs to be ridden.

You have to decide FIRST what your planned use of the bike you are buying is going to be.

Then you have to decide if what you want is what you need OR rather is the bike you want to buy going to be inline with your goals?
 

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If the choice is limited to those two bikes then my choice would be the one with the least amount of scheduled recommended service.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
@Bevo I think service intervals are about the same...but any bike used on track frequently will have a shorter schedule.
 

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@Bevo I think service intervals are about the same...but any bike used on track frequently will have a shorter schedule.
Didn't realize I was required to track either bike. Just as when I purchased my 2017 CBR1000S1 in April of 2017, I'd need to see the owner's manual and recommended service schedule before I signed the check.
 

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Don't just look at how often they need service. Ask the Ducati dealer how much for the 15,000 mile services that require a valve check. It's one of the reasons I traded my Panigale for the CBR. I'm putting too many miles on it and it was going to cost me a small fortune.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
@Bevo different manufacturers have different schedules. The Aprilia ecu actually keeps track for you but this is only visible by the dealer or a user with diagnostic software. Personally, I don't expect any motor to last more than 2,500 track miles - they all go BOOM around then if you don't look after them.

@jjscsix this is why I learned to do everything myself - I know I will do a better job and not cut any corners
 

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@Bevo different manufacturers have different schedules. The Aprilia ecu actually keeps track for you but this is only visible by the dealer or a user with diagnostic software. Personally, I don't expect any motor to last more than 2,500 track miles - they all go BOOM around then if you don't look after them.

@jjscsix this is why I learned to do everything myself - I know I will do a better job and not cut any corners
I doubt I would purchase any vehicle whose manufacturer didn't provide a documented maintenance schedule. Some folks don't care if their shit's in the shop or how often. I do. I value time on the bike and any time not on the bike is wasted time.
 

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@Bevo different manufacturers have different schedules. The Aprilia ecu actually keeps track for you but this is only visible by the dealer or a user with diagnostic software. Personally, I don't expect any motor to last more than 2,500 track miles - they all go BOOM around then if you don't look after them.

@jjscsix this is why I learned to do everything myself - I know I will do a better job and not cut any corners
There was a day when I did all my work myself. But getting into the valves on the newer bikes is not something I want to do. I'm sure I could, but I've reached the point where I don't have to. But when the dealership that I have known for many, many years sold out, the shop rates went way up. I was recently told a service with valve adjustments could be $1,500-2,000. Im retired and what they lovingly refer to as on "fixed income".
 

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If these were my choices I'd buy an RSV4.
After that Honda all the way. No frame = no thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
@bored&stroked the V4R does have a frame, works good! I love my RSV4.

@jjscsix yea I can't square that sort of cost for a valve job....stealerships are getting out of control.

@Bevo I get it but I am not aware of any manufacturer that DOES NOT make it clear what needs to be done by what time for street use. I am just saying a bike used on track frequently will cut those intervals down significantly. Most manufacturers won't even tell you what to do in that scenario. Aprilia will as I have this info, but I have not seen any printed guidance from any other manufacturer so I typically do a re-build at 2,000-2,500 miles which is about every other end of season (2 years of track days and racing).
 

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Didn't realize I was required to track either bike. Just as when I purchased my 2017 CBR1000S1 in April of 2017, I'd need to see the owner's manual and recommended service schedule before I signed the check.
What kind of passive aggressive reply is this?? He's offering his two cents in a lengthy, well written, and intimate review of two different bikes.... which he owns both! You make some negative comment like that and that just makes you a bitter ass person. Don't sit there for one second and try to back peddle either. "DiDn'T rEaLiZe I WaS rEQuiReD tO TraCK eItHer BiKE."

Well guess what bud?!? You don't have either bike so you should probably just not reply. This was a review between two bikes, not a place for you to hijack and make about yourself. Honda and Ducati didn't over-engineer a sport bike just for you to do 65mph legally down the highway. So it's fair to say these bikes have track utility. That's all he's saying. So maybe you should just read the service manual for your 2017 and sit this one out lil fella.
 

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If the choice is limited to those two bikes then my choice would be the one with the least amount of scheduled recommended service.
I hope you dont follow the 8K mile interval and 16K filter interval on the CBR. That is obscene for anyone who pushes it moderately. Well, I am certailny NOT waiting 8K miles to change the oil on a hi rev engine, that does get used....
 

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I doubt I would purchase any vehicle whose manufacturer didn't provide a documented maintenance schedule. Some folks don't care if their shit's in the shop or how often. I do. I value time on the bike and any time not on the bike is wasted time.

Dear Diary... It rained again today.. 2 meaningless days on Earth that I had to spend sulking. Nothing but 48 hours of wasted time. Tomorrow looks to be partly wasted with a chance of riding, let's hope for the best so I don't have to bear my mere existence not being on my bike.

Do you know how dumb this sounds? This is a motorcycle, it's not self-healing machinery. It yields to the laws of friction. If you are going to own a motorcycle, prepare to deal with the consequences. There are going to be days when you are not riding the bike. Have you ever heard of quality over quantity?? 10 amazing days riding is better than 20 bad days. Take the good with the bad... All riding and no maintenance makes Bevo have dull spark, a dirty filter, low compression, a slipping clutch, and bald tires.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
@evangelos K I changed my oil at 250 miles with 3.3 liters of Honda's HP4S along with a magnetized drain plug. I will change it again WITH the oil filter at 1,000 miles with the same oil.

Hoping to get my hands on the Motul RR-R SP specific oil before the end of the year when I will make the transition from street to track-only.
 

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As for the "front end confidence", do you think it's more due to the components or the weight/balance of the bike? I'm curious because when a bike is $30k, a full Ohlins/Brembo upgrade is negligible in price ($4000 for fork/shock, $5000 for billet monobloc's).

I'm a total noob, so my apologies in advance if it's a stupid question.
 

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Fascinating comparo!
I like that the V4S comes with forged Marchesini’s, I was a bit surprised the SC-82 did not.

Friends wt pre-‘20 Duc V4’s said they ran very hot, and that they would cook, during summer street riding. Has this changed with the ‘20’s wider fairing and V4R cut-outs In the fairing?
That is very sweet that you can get a complete high performance exhaust, as well as ecu tune without issue. I do love the ’20+ Duc V4, but I just love the SC-82 morrre. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #17
@09_Blade It is hard to say WHY exactly the RR-R SP has the "it factor" when it comes to front end feel. Trail is about 4" on both bikes, both have frames but manufacturers don't ask Ohlins for their latest fork design....instead they work WITH Ohlins to design a spec that works for their bike. Honda is the largest motorcycle manufacturer in the world and it is commonly known their engineering prowess...some say Honda are known to create synergy from time to time. it is my suspicion that Honda took their time developing this new RR-R so they had the opportunity to buy every other bike out there and reverse engineer them to see what works and leveraged their MotoGP experience as well. They knew this bike was going to be top-end biased so they needed to design a chassis that gave the rider the confidence to enter the corner with more speed. Speed comes from confidence, ergo a confidence-inspiring front end. Just my .02

Ducati V4 has 24.5 degree rake angle with 100 mm of trail and a wheel base of 57.8"
Honda RR-R SP has 24 degree rake also with 100 mm of trail and a wheel base of 57.3"
 

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Discussion Starter #18
@J D interesting that you bring this up....so I always dismissed it when people bitched about the heat from a bike making 200+ hp, especially on the street as I don't ride much street and I certainly don't spend much time sitting in traffic or at red lights. That being said, Ducati has a cylinder disable feature on the rear bank to save some of that heat and they have also installed some plastic heat shields with foam on the inside and both of these items do make a little difference. I recently had my V4R at Buttonwillow, CA at a track day running pretty quick laps (1:51s) on a day that was no joke 108 F :oops: So it was hellish HOT. My V4R is a race bike so I removed those heat shields under the subframe when I installed race bodywork and THAT was a mistake. After about 5-6 laps in my session the bike would get SO hot that the dash flashed HIGH for the temperature and I literally thought the bike might catch on fire! I have NEVER experienced that before, I was seriously thinking I may have to dump the bike and I would surely have blisters on the back of my left thigh - the heat was certainly next level. I don't think this is normal as I have raced Ducatis since 2008 and nothing like this - they DO get hot but not to the point of causing burns THROUGH your leathers. Needless to day I was fine and nothing happened but I packed it up for the day after 5 sessions, the last being the time this happened. When I returned home I re-installed those heat shields, swapped the stock coolant for Engine Ice and installed a product called TeknoFibra below the entire tank to keep some of the heat at bay.

The wider fairing actually make you feel a bit warmer when moving as that fairing pushes the wind out past you meaning you knees are tucked in behind the sides of the fairing,
 

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Wh0a! That’s hot!! I know what you mean about discounting what the traffic situation is like, but it’s good to know, and for sure a sacrifice when riding a 200hp moto, as you mentioned.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
@J D right it is CRAZY but I setup A TON of Ducati motorcycles throughout So-Cal and all over really and no one has really complained too much about the heat when used on the street. Yes, IT DOES get hot but it is manageable. The new Streetfighter is a little better because no fairings but most of my customers ride street and track and no complaints but they are not pushing all that hard which generates a lot more heat. What I am trying to say is if someone reads this don't be discouraged from getting a Ducati V4 because of the heat, it isn't all that different from hot high-horsepower brands. I think @SP2-Monkey mentioned he felt the new Honda had some heat so it is all a matter of perception.
 
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