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The truth about the misunderstood "preload" adjuster!

42K views 54 replies 31 participants last post by  TheDoctoRR  
#1 · (Edited)
The "preload" adjuster on a cartridge fork tube is a very commonly misunderstood adjuster. I myself was under the impression it adjusted main spring preload exclusively until I really started to delve into fork tuning and what I discovered surprised me a great deal. I use preload in quotations because while it is called the preload adjuster that is only its most periphery function.

The 2 major results of the "preload adjuster are:
1. Fork Length adjustment
2. Top-out/Negative spring compression

I will try not to yammer on needlessly as ill let the pictures do the talking, but the basic sequence goes like this:

1. When the "preload adjuster is 'tightened' it pushes against the main spring which in turn pushes against the negative spring.
2. Since the entire 'system' (the shaft that contains the springs) is a length that never changes, something internally has to give. This is always the weakest link.
3. In a traditional fork that has no topout/negative spring the only thing that can 'give' is the main spring and therefore it compresses giving us main spring preload.
4. In the newer style fork with the topout/negative spring there are 2 springs that can give. Since the main spring has an rate of ~1kg/mm and the topout negative spring has a substantially lower rate, guess which spring compresses first.
5. Proof you say? Here are the measurements taken from the zx6 cartridge pictured:

Full Soft "preload"
Main spring = 255mm
Negative spring = 40mm

Full Hard "preload"
Main spring = 250mm
Negative spring = 32mm
Top cap height growth = 15mm

Even more interesting are the measurements from the cbr1000rr...

Full Soft "preload"
Main spring = 258mm
Negative spring = 42mm

Full Hard "preload"
Main spring = 255mm
Negative spring = 32mm
Top cap height growth = 15mm

From full soft to full hard the main spring compressed 1% while the negative spring compressed 25% which incidentally is as far as it can compress. the negative springs coils are now touching and the spring now serves NO purpose.

This means that the fork will no longer extend past the maximum extension of the main spring.
This means the fork will not extend down into a dip in the pavement.
This means that the front tire is no longer touching the pavement.
This means that if you are in a lean and this happens, you crash.

So why on earth would you WANT to negate your topout/negative spring?
No reason I can think of. I cant answer why RaceTech uses shorter stiffer topout springs. I can say that although im certainly no expert, I know a few who are (AMA suspension techs) and they absolutely use long soft topout springs...

So what does the damn adjuster do?
Well it adjusts ride height, and this has to do with frame geometry, but at the risk of eliminating your topout/negative spring, is it worth it? Some grossly oversimplified trig says that steering head angle goes from 23 to 22.7. Thats it! Of course the 15mm of length will translate into ~14mm of front end height increase but thats only ~0.015%. This does not take into acount change of center of gravity, rear antisquat, etc but you get the point. Its seems a minor dimensional adjustment compared to the additional negative effects brought upon by what we discussed earlier.

So the question becomes, Why is the adjuster even there?
I cant answer that. All I can tell you is what ive found. I did some track testing with the "preload" setting on full hard to see if i noticed a seat of the pants difference. Would it really be that big of a deal to negate the topout/negative spring? We have very bumpy tracks here in Canada and I didnt make it out of the second corner, I lowsided after hitting a bump at lean. I reset the "preload" adjuster to full soft and won my next 2 races the next day. Take what you will from this but I firmly believe in the attributes of the negative spring.

So for setting sag then, what to do?
Well since we have established that the adjuster doesn't really adjust preload, what to do? If all you need is 5mm of preload and you have flat tracks, crank her all the way to hard. For the rest of us, spring changes or changing the preload by way of the spacer on the damping rod itself is the only way.
 

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#8 ·
Well, that explains alot. So on a street bike, you need soft because of road imperfections. And on a race bike you may or may not need soft. Basically, we have to swap springs on both. I think we should all sign a petition to get cbr1000rr's sent without front or rear springs with a discount so we can get the right setup without wasting money on inferior shit.
 
#11 ·
i dont like this... i think its misleading.
saying it adjusts ride height, what about on bikes that dont have top out spring, or those with upgraded forks? doesnt it increase the preload(spring stiffness) on the springs?
yes, making the springs stiffer does affect where along the sliding fork tubes the bikes rides with rider weighing x, but thats a secondary function. not a primary.

just saying, if it didnt adjust the preload, then why the hell does every suspension tuner use it or tell you to adjust preload this way?
 
#13 ·
I've been routed here for a post I made in another topic.

I made an interesting experiment a few hours ago (biking time is gone here, so all I've left is fiddling in the garage )

OK, so I got 1.0kg/mm RaceTech springs installed with RT valves about a week ago on my 2004 CBR1000RR. Thought I'd try and see how preload affects sag with this setup. The result is more than surprising, I must say.

I used three stages (full soft, half-way, full hard), and measured

relaxed length of forks (front wheel in the air)
free (unloaded) sag
rider sag


Much to my surprise, in all three preload cases free sag was apprx. 30mm and rider sag was 40mm.
There were changes indeed. The length of chrome showing between fork "shoes" and the black fork seal increased about 1cm as I went from no (external) preload to full preload. But also the length of the fork increased 1cm when the front wheel was in the air. (So fork free length minus chrome showing with rider on was _always_ apprx 40mm)

How do you guys interpret this?

My conclusions:
1, As preload on the main spring is increased, near/at being topped out it pushes harder against the top-out spring (that's stock BTW), hence the increase in free length.
2, the preload knob on this bike does not adjust "sag" in the traditional sense since it does not change in which part of the stroke the fork starts to operate (it's always 4cm from the top), but it's a ride-height adjuster.


So, this is yet another practical example of how our mysterious forks work. :D
 
#14 ·
According to this guys post no need to set sag to the weight using the adjuster? I know at my dealer setting softer my bike dives into the ground when you tap the front brake. Bounces through bumpy turns on the highway. Won't stop over bumps. With it a little harder it is way more stable at higher speed turns and doesn't dive so I'm much happier with it.

Maybe he prefers it at full soft because he weighs 110lbs he never mentions that....
 
#17 ·
I used to think the same, but it's hard to argue with the empirical data posted by TheDoctoRR and Blade_RRunner.

My experience setting the sag on my 2010 CBR1000RR is exactly how TheDoctoRR described. No matter how much preload I added, rider sag just wouldn't change to any worthwhile degree.
 
#18 ·
its really simple guys.
yes if you tighte preload it squeezes the helper spring and main spring, so yes it will push back against the fork bottoms, thats simple physics. BUT the change in ride height is very very small, and when its all said and done, that is NOT the way to affect ride height. adjusting the forks in the triple is how u do that.

The change that it will affect more is the load on the spring, and since most springs are linear, meaning, more u squeeze them, the more they push back that compressing of the spring, determines basically if the spring is week or stiff in the fork, and that affects its rate of travel, and range of travel over bumps, and sag(general weight of bike and rider) as well as load under turning and braking. then the compression and rebound knobs adjustments are used to control, and fine tune these movements.


This is why im saying i do not like this thread as it is misleading and OP needs to do more research to better understand the thing. PLUS when u upgrade that suspension, there is 9/10 times no helper spring, as all it does is complicate spring rate calculations.
So what then? will it still affect "ride height" then?

this thread is bad juju for n00bs
 
#24 ·
http://www.promecha.com.au/sag_preload.htm

http://www.promecha.com.au/springs_advanced.htm

After reading all this, i'm buffled...

in conclusion the cbr1000rr has
''dual rates'' main fork springs,
unknown rate top-out springs...

and as the link stated
''One perverse question you might have at this stage: what if I combine a dual-rate main spring with a top-out spring? The rate would either go down then up again, or up then down, depending on the relative lengths of the various spring components.
Honda actually used this set-up on their CBR600RR!''

and cbr1000rr...
&



''Digression

No, I'm not going off on a tangent. Springs that get softer as they go down are called digressive. I guess it sounds better than regressive and the political metaphor doesn’t work: all springs are technically conservative, which means they store energy and return the full amount.
We actually discussed digressive springs back in part 2 (Sag and Preload), where I called them top-out springs. We arrange one spring pushing up and one pushing down, opposing each other. That means their rates add, K=K1 + K2. Now if you press down far enough, the upper spring will reach its free length and just stop doing anything. At that stage you only have K2, but this time it’s smaller than the combined rate. What I’ll show below are the force and rate graphs for a 9N/mm main spring, with a 4N/mm top-out spring which extends 35mm before giving up.''


How do you compress sth to reach its free length???Are my English that bad???
 
#26 ·
I must admit Mr Byrnes writing is very hard to follow. He seems to know his stuff but makes a few glaring errors. The cbr has never had dual rate springs that I am aware of. I think what he is trying to get at with the dual rate spring comment is the 'apparent' rate change when using a system with a main spring and a negative g(top-out) spring. When I first wrote this article i admit I didnt have a full grasp on what the purposes and implications of the topout spring really are. I have since come to see the importance of the spring and the effect that the 'dual rate' has to offer. I will post up my findings later on today. i think you guys will find it quite interesting.
 
#27 ·
Dual-rate refers to the main springs,
cbr1000rr has them (i think), you can tell dual rate springs from linear (single rate) springs from the distance between each of the coils.
If all are the same distance its linear, if there are some close and some not ,then the spring is dual-rate. (and progressive if the distance gets closer and closer with each coil).
 
#28 ·
What i want to know is that ,if the preload is maxed and the top-out compressed, cant the fork extend to the length of an un-preloaded fork (& uncompressed top-out spring)?? or does the max preload just makes the initial compression ''harsher''??

P.s. i have my forks at max preload ...and my right pre-loader is fucked up from my tools...it ll be difficult to un-max it...lol :)
 
#33 ·
I'm new to suspension. Adjustments so I own an 04 1000rr with stock Susan I weigh about180 and l messed with it all summer was a bucking bronco if I put all preloads. Full soft it should help then right
New to this site but asked. Two questions. Fron some of you. And got zero response. From either. Thanks guys
your question makes no sense Susan.........
 
#38 ·
04 suspension

Well all I know is the stock springs suck on the 04-05 forks. Just a spring change and revalve make a big difference. And depending on how many miles you have on the shock can make a big difference too. Another thing change the linkage from the 04 to 06-07 it will make a difference too. Needless to say most people do not get up to the speeds on the street to test the suspension anyway. But if you think you do then get someone that races or a good suspension guy to help you with it. It will give you more confidence on the bike when you know you can pitch it in there and its gonna stick.
My 2 cents.
Don